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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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$2/$5 - Overs and a FD as PFR

dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
$2/$5 ($800 Cap) at Wildhorse Casino, Pendleton, OR


Villain (SB - $1600): 20s Hispanic Male with earbuds. Never played with him before, but gives off the vibe of someone with a clue.

Hero (UTG+2 - $800): 30s Black Male, just sat down. This is literally my third hand at the table, so everyone is completely unknown.


Button Straddles to $10. Villain in SB completes. BB completes. Folds to Hero in UTG+2 who raises to $40 with K Q. CO calls. Button folds. SB and BB call.
Pot $170. Flop J :s: 8 :s: 4. Villain checks. BB checks. Hero checks. CO checks.
Pot $170. Turn 2. Villain checks. BB checks. Hero bets $105. CO folds. SB tanks and calls. BB folds.
Pot $380. River 4 :s:. Villain checks. Hero bets $175...


I don't think villain really ever has much here. Maybe something like a pair 55-77. Thoughts on my line?

Comments

  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    edited December 2016
    So there's already $30 in the pot when it gets to you and half a dozen players still to act. I think I just limp along here and play the hand for simple hand making value. If you are going to raise here, then I think you need to go bigger. $50 minimum. I think we want a low SPR, heads up situation where we can get our money in good with top pair.

    As played, I think I c-bet this flop. I think we have just enough going for us equity wise, and I think we can make it tough for a bad J or an 8 to hang on by betting later streets as well. We scoop some money when spades brick out, we get pocket 3's to fold. Altogether I think there's enough working in our favor to c-bet.

    On the turn, since we didnt' bet the flop, I don't see any reason to bet the turn. Our line looks real bluffy/draw-y now and I don't expect anybody to fold something with showdown value. I think we're really polarized with a lot of bad hands, and a slim few that were good enough to slow play the flop, like top set. I think we've lost the ability to represent top pair and overpair hands when we check a wet flop like this.

    River...it's a scary card for sure. It shoudl be tough for him to call with a Jack or worse, but sometimes people do anyway. Personally, I think I just give up now. I think you needed to decide a lot earlier in the hand if you were going to draw for value or if you were going to drive the hand and put pressure on your opponents to fold. You've kinda flip-flopped a couple of times now. So, your story doesn't add up on the end. I think you get looked up a lot.
    Thanked by 1workinghard
  • chilidogchilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    I agree with banana here (!) for the most part (except for preflop sizing which I prefer OP's sizing). We really aren't repping anything except Jack's full -- wouldn't we be cbetting the flop with overs+FD , or an overpair / top pair? These are the types of lines I take (as played here) when I want to get looked up light on the river.

    If, however, you want to check this flop, I think we need to be bombing the river. Pot size or more for max fold equity.
    Thanked by 1workinghard
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    The line taken I think u are betting the maximin someone will hero call with second pair. If u are gonna bluff river as played I like sizing up better.
    I also like a flop c-bet aand a larger raise preflop is also good, then continuing to barrel on turn.
    As played I like an overly on turn like $225 and giving up river, with turn bet as is I like sizing up river bet.
    I think u are pricing in second pair here a lot
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    I think I one and done the flop for $110ish. Your line looks like you whiffed and are trying to steal. I find I've been looked up a lot with this line so I don't really try it much anymore. I'd be fine if you flopped a set going to CR or something. Even if you flopped a set of J you should often value bet the flop against draws so line looks bluffy. As played I'd at least make it bigger on the river with a "do you really want to look this up?" sizing like $280.

    I think your only hope is that he missed hearts or will fold a bad J he was playing passive.
  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,244Member
    IMO, you don't rep much based on your line, you're not checking flop with any over pair nor are you checking flop with top set on this texture, V in this hand could have some draws in his range whether it's spades or hearts or some weak pairs that are looking to reach SD, we reach the river and we can employ the under bluff concept I don't mind your sizing but I think we can get away with less to try to accomplish folds based on range you've assigned, $125/$145.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    Yeah, I knew I wasn't repping much, but he had a very weak range. Still, I guess I've got to at least have some value hands there...
    Villain tanks for like 90 seconds then calls with 9 2 .

    He ended up being a massive station. Forgetting the fact that this line was ill-advised, I never would have bet turn or river against this guy had I known that...
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    dpbuck wrote: »
    Yeah, I knew I wasn't repping much, but he had a very weak range. Still, I guess I've got to at least have some value hands there...
    Villain tanks for like 90 seconds then calls with 9 2 .

    He ended up being a massive station. Forgetting the fact that this line was ill-advised, I never would have bet turn or river against this guy had I known that...
    Yea but he probably folds to a larger river bet. You can still exploit a station in that manner. You gave him the too much money in the pot to fold price.
  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,244Member
    edited December 2016
    pokertime wrote: »
    dpbuck wrote: »
    Yeah, I knew I wasn't repping much, but he had a very weak range. Still, I guess I've got to at least have some value hands there...
    Villain tanks for like 90 seconds then calls with 9 2 .

    He ended up being a massive station. Forgetting the fact that this line was ill-advised, I never would have bet turn or river against this guy had I known that...
    Yea but he probably folds to a larger river bet. You can still exploit a station in that manner. You gave him the too much money in the pot to fold price.
    Maybe value betting thinner could be a bit better than just donating any amount of $$ to a station on a bluff..
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Letmewin1 wrote: »
    pokertime wrote: »
    dpbuck wrote: »
    Yeah, I knew I wasn't repping much, but he had a very weak range. Still, I guess I've got to at least have some value hands there...
    Villain tanks for like 90 seconds then calls with 9 2 .

    He ended up being a massive station. Forgetting the fact that this line was ill-advised, I never would have bet turn or river against this guy had I known that...
    Yea but he probably folds to a larger river bet. You can still exploit a station in that manner. You gave him the too much money in the pot to fold price.
    Maybe value betting thinner could be a bit better than just donating any amount of $$ to a station on a bluff..

    I agree but the whole mess happened because we didn't Cbet after raising PF. Then when we descided to take a bluff line we bet small so any pair was going to look us up. Given the V hand he would have folded to a larger bet most likely. There were a number of ways out.

    Vs this V value bet mid size as his going to call a lot and if you can hand read him well you should be able to bluff him off smaller pairs with larger bets. He's not likely to figure it out.
  • daynnightdaynnight Posts: 200Subscriber
    grunch.

    He's never folding. I think he could hero very very light with the line you took. I think this is a dcent board to c-bet, however as played I would not barrel river as we are basically repping nothing. I would probably cbet and double barrel alot of turn cards, this one would hav ebeen one of them.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    I didn't think this was a particularly good situation to c-bet into three other people. Heads up or three ways I might bet, but I kinda felt four ways against complete unknowns, betting was a little optimistic, especially considering I don't like a lot turn cards.

    Those advocating a c-bet, can you give details on why?
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    dpbuck wrote: »
    I didn't think this was a particularly good situation to c-bet into three other people. Heads up or three ways I might bet, but I kinda felt four ways against complete unknowns, betting was a little optimistic, especially considering I don't like a lot turn cards.

    Those advocating a c-bet, can you give details on why?

    Becasue you missed but since your the PF raiser you can take the pot if others missed as well. You can even get value from a draw if they call flop and fold turn when they miss again on turn and you double barrel. When you elect to check flop as the PF raiser then bet turn bet river you look like you wiffed AK and are trying to steal becasue flop checked through thus get looked up light. It's not a bad line to get 2 streets if you have a hand but not the best bluff line. These guys aren't thinking on a higher level they are thinking if you raised an over pair or J PF you would have bet flop.

    Day: V is not hero calling. He's a station that can't fold a pair. There is a difference. He obviously folds flop and I still think a larger river bet gets through. If it doesn't your still going to print money off him moving forward.
  • daynnightdaynnight Posts: 200Subscriber
    dpbuck wrote: »
    I didn't think this was a particularly good situation to c-bet into three other people. Heads up or three ways I might bet, but I kinda felt four ways against complete unknowns, betting was a little optimistic, especially considering I don't like a lot turn cards.

    Those advocating a c-bet, can you give details on why?

    Its not the greatest c-bet spot int he world and this is a board that will hit the other ranges alot, but I still think a c-bet will be slightly more profitable then c/f in this spot. Theres a few turn card you can barrel and you still have 2 overcards and a BDFD. C/f is certainly fine and if the players are very stick its probably best.

    What I think is very bad is betting turn and then 1/2 pot river. You should never have a J played like this and you only rep super thin like 99/TT going for razor thin value. Im not surprised he called you with 92ss and wouldnt have been surprised to see him call with A high. However I do like turn bet I am simply shutting down on river.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    Yeah, the turn and river line I took was bad. I should either shut down river, or absolutely bomb it.

    Still not sure on cbetting. With my overs and backdoor equity, I was probably check/calling a bet from cutoff, but maybe I should have cbet even into this many people. *shrug* Live and learn...
  • David ChanDavid Chan Posts: 1,208Pro
    I think that you should give up river because your linew makes no sense to a recent player. On turn, you arr ripping TT/99/NFD hearts. On river, a rec wouldn't expect you to value bet TT/99 when front door flush comes in. He would expect almost eveeyone to take a free showdown with TT/99. He does not give you credit for front door flush or TP/over pair because you didn't cbet flop. A lot of straight draws and backdoor heart draws bricked.

    So expect to get Hero called by a lot of weak pairs if you make a bad river bluff here because your line makes no sense for value to a rec.
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