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AA in 3bet pot OOP

LordFoldemortLordFoldemort Posts: 2Subscriber
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I have a tight image and just lost a $150 pot so not a winning image, probably 2-3/10. I'm 275 deep.
V1 is super loose preflop, playing around 70% of his hands and always raises when first in the pot. He raises 5 for trash hands and 12-20 for PP's and broadways. He has a higher than average bluffing frequency, but doesn't go crazy. He has us covered.
V2 is a loose-passive station. He's about 230 deep.

9-handed, folds to V1 in UTG +2 who raises to 5, three people call and I raise to 15 from the SB with A A. I kept the raise sizing low because I wanted everyone to call, but maybe I should have raised to 20 since I'm OOP? V1 and V2 call.

Flop (45 after rake) is J 2 10 .
I bet 35, call, call. At this point I don't put either players on a set or two-pair since they are likely raising this flop with the draw-heavy board, also we're blocking the NFD.

Turn (150) is the 4 :s: . I bet 85, and V1 goes all in for 140 more. V2 folds. It's on me to call 140 to win 375, so I'm getting about 2.5 to 1. I would need to be good 27% of the time to make the call. I've already decided that V1 didn't flop two-pair or a set, and he is probably also raising 10x of diamonds on the flop. I don't think he has QJ-AJ, or QQ-KK because of his preflop raise sizing. I think he realizes that he doesn't have any FE with the line I've taken and the pot odds I'm getting. At this point my perception of V's range is J4, 10/4, 2/4, 4x of diamonds, maybe 10x of diamonds, and mayyybe a naked Jack. After putting this range into stove (not including a single Jack or 10x of diamonds) I am a 30/70 dog, so I have odds to call based on this range. Does this range seem reasonable? How likely is it that he's overplaying a Jack?


Results:
I call, V wins with 24o.
Here's my main problem with the hand: if V knows that I am stacking off when he makes two-pair or trips, he is getting odds to call on the flop (35 to win 300 with 5 outs.) Does this change how the hand should be played?
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Comments

  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    In my opinion preflop is much too small of 3bet.
    With AA u want to raise to an amount that will get 2 callers. Your goal pre-flop should be to raise an amount to get 2 callers.
    Now the undersizing preflop allows for flop to be called by bottom pair. With this wet of a flop I would bet 80% of pot or so. So as played flop bet is ok, but preflop is what killed u.
    Here how I think u should of done it.
    Preflop raise to 25-30 get 2callers u bet flop 70-80 and typically win pot. Also stacking off with AA on that flop typically only bottom set and jt beat u. Also when pot is correctly bloated up people will just go with one pair more often.
    So to summarize just raise an amount to get 2 callers every time u have AA and u will be in good shape......in my opinion.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    The thing about stations is they usually just call until they hit then they jam. I might make a fold here but more likely I'm calling as I'm still drawing live against 2 pair and I'm beating some badly played Jx. If he's overplaying a J he likely would have done it OTF but some people wait for a safe turn before they shove. There is no accounting for bad play.
    This guy is a fish and is not calling because you will stack off when he binks 2 pair. He called because he's a fish and nothing else. Value bet this guy into the ground for all eternity. It does renforce you can make thin folds if he only plays back when he hits.
  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    edited December 2016
    JKH wrote: »
    In my opinion preflop is much too small of 3bet.
    With AA u want to raise to an amount that will get 2 callers. Your goal pre-flop should be to raise an amount to get 2 callers.
    Now the undersizing preflop allows for flop to be called by bottom pair. With this wet of a flop I would bet 80% of pot or so. So as played flop bet is ok, but preflop is what killed u.
    Here how I think u should of done it.
    Preflop raise to 25-30 get 2callers u bet flop 70-80 and typically win pot. Also stacking off with AA on that flop typically only bottom set and jt beat u. Also when pot is correctly bloated up people will just go with one pair more often.
    So to summarize just raise an amount to get 2 callers every time u have AA and u will be in good shape......in my opinion.

    I don't get why your intention is to yield a specific number of opponents. Just for fun, plug AA into a calculator against 4 or 5 players with raise-calling ranges. You'll see that AA has a huge equity advantage relative to your investment in the pot. That's dividends.

    I think the goal of pre-flop raise sizing should be to dial-in the ideal SPR for your hand. As played, the SPR was 4-5, which is absolutely fine for an overpair. If he had gotten one caller, the SPR would have been 8-ish. I guess technically that makes it slightly harder to get paid off, but that is really splitting hairs.

    I think the hero played it fine. Wouldn't change a thing.
    JKH wrote: »
    Here how I think u should of done it.
    Preflop raise to 25-30 get 2callers u bet flop 70-80 and typically win pot.
    Please clarify. Is it your intention to just take it down on the flop here?

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