Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

$5-10 NL choose your sizing..

Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,115Administrator, LeadPro
V1 is pretty big VIP. But he's up a lot in this session and hasn't done anything crazy. Hero has shown him down some good hands but has been card dead for quite some time. V1 has over $3000, Hero w $1720. Table is very good and ripe to extract value from.

UTG good player limps in, Hero overlimps w Q 9 UTG 1. V1 raises to $60 to my immediate left. To his left $2000 stack calls. Sb w $800 calls, limper calls and I call. (Preflop police yes)

$300 FLOP: Q :s: T 6

Check I check, V1 bets $60. Player to his left calls, sb calls, limper folds. Hero seriously doubts anyone is slow playing to this bet sizing. Hero? If Hero is to craise what do we think about sizing here?
Tagged:

Comments

  • chilidogchilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    The $60 seems like he missed with AK/AJ/JJ.
    I do like xr here to $375. Big enough to show you mean business, but not so large that your opponent auto puts you on a draw. Also leaves some room for future fold equity (if needed).
  • Dragon-AshDragon-Ash Posts: 203Subscriber
    edited November 2016
    $60 into $300? That's just....weird. Feels like even a whiffed AK would bet more, even from a VIP.

    But it doesn't really matter; I suspect we'd be a favorite even against a range of specifically AA/KK/QQ/TT, AK, AQ, AT. I'm pretty much happy to GII here.

    I might actually make it slightly smaller, maybe something like $335? I don't mind a call. Heck, I *want* a call.
    Assuming a call, if we hit on the turn we can easily get the money in with less than half-pot sized bets on turn and river.

  • maphacksmaphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    edited November 2016
    the goal of a raise is to get better Qx to fold or a draw to call. getting Qx to fold is more important I guess so we should raise big and move allin on pretty much any turn. raise to 450-550 and shove turn for potsize in case the deep stacks call. that way I also make sure the 80bb stack knows he will play for his whole stack. if villains fold a better flushdraw it's perfectly fine either since we will pay them off when our flush hits because it's too strong.
  • DrSpaceDrSpace Posts: 716Subscriber
    Preflop is good raising or limp calling to the VIP seems appropriate. I think we make a 2/3 pot size raise. It is optimistic to get better hands to fold, the NFD or a better Q. To any thinking player our best hand is QT and discounted 66. But we likely have the best hand and lots of equity vs almost anything.

  • GonzoPokerGonzoPoker Posts: 38Subscriber
    I think the best sizing is 275-315 trying to get value from hands like JT -87s T9 T8 but hands like TT and 66 AXh -AQ aren't going anywhere and may raise you if you make the flush do you know you're good ?
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,115Administrator, LeadPro
    What do people think about making a gross shove all-in?
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited November 2016
    Bart wrote: »
    What do people think about making a gross shove all-in?

    Good factors for a shove
    1. Players appear to be capped at 1 pair, Limper is very unlikely to have better than 1 pair (would likely raise flop with wet board with call in between) & should fold 1 pair a lot but could hero call off light as last to call If he decides u have draw and may even call off his draw occasionally.
    -sb being short is gonna raise hands he wants to go with more often than deep players and if he has aq or kq and calls we still have hearts & sb is most likely to call off with inferior draw
    -original raiser could be trapping a set of tens or queens very rarely but I think is mainly weak and almost never has an overpair or 2 pair with that sizing and is least likely to call.
    2. So all Players are likely capped at 1 pair and going to have a hard time calling with kq qj or aq.
    3. If u just raise your equity is really hard to realize if u improve b/c you are guessing on a bunch of cards on whether they help u or your opponent. By going all in u realize your equity the best as it would be challenging to value bet any hit besides hearts which are less likely to get paid b/c its a flush. .

    4.Draws may call
    5.As u state on your podcasts the 1700 is not consequential to hero bankroll.
    6. Hero does not tilt if called and loses
    7. Hero knows how to play with poor image if called and loses

    Reasons against shove
    1.small small chance c-bettor has top set or a set of tens -but even then hero has outs


    The more I think about it the more I like the shove the best.
  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,244Member
    edited November 2016
    maphacks wrote: »
    the goal of a raise is to get better Qx to fold or a draw to call. getting Qx to fold is more important I guess so we should raise big and move allin on pretty much any turn. raise to 450-550 and shove turn for potsize in case the deep stacks call. that way I also make sure the 80bb stack knows he will play for his whole stack. if villains fold a better flushdraw it's perfectly fine either since we will pay them off when our flush hits because it's too strong.

    I think all of this with the xeption /better FD calling, we should be ahead of those? No?
  • maphacksmaphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    Letmewin1 wrote: »
    maphacks wrote: »
    the goal of a raise is to get better Qx to fold or a draw to call. getting Qx to fold is more important I guess so we should raise big and move allin on pretty much any turn. raise to 450-550 and shove turn for potsize in case the deep stacks call. that way I also make sure the 80bb stack knows he will play for his whole stack. if villains fold a better flushdraw it's perfectly fine either since we will pay them off when our flush hits because it's too strong.

    I think all of this with the xeption /better FD calling, we should be ahead of those? No?

    yes but we always pay him off when the flush comes in (at least I would) , so we have our whole stack reversed implieds. on the other hand we sometimes win against smaller flushes (we obv have to otherwise it's a bad call^^).
    that means even if we raise to like 500, he is getting correct odds against our specific hands if we pay him off. not sure I explained it well...

  • daynnightdaynnight Posts: 200Subscriber
    if you raise, are you bluffing or value better? call.
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,115Administrator, LeadPro
    daynnight wrote: »
    if you raise, are you bluffing or value better? call.

    We are semi-bluffing and protecting our equity. There are many hands with equity that can improve if we just call, imo.

    Bart
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    I'm looking at this hand like we got a hammer lock on it.
    Pre-flop raiser VIP most likely has a small PP (which is prob a 3rd pair now) and nobody else figures to have a strong hand Qx is TOP of their range, I think AQ will very likely to raise flop, so KQ is prob the very very top.

    I don't want ppl to fold, so I'm raising small...I'm thinking to 200.
    If somebody has a hand like QJ, etc - there's no way they can hang on through turn/river.
    So depending on who/how many call, I would adjust sizing on turn to either try to get looked up by some very weak holdings, or blast Qx out of the pot.
  • snapper35snapper35 Posts: 243Subscriber
    edited November 2016
    If nobody is slow playing...
    Its hard for villains to hero-call an all-in with worse like 1pp hands and weaker straight/flush draws with each of their relative position with this action.

    Bart c/r all-in
    PFR folds his missed big Aces and sm pp with 2 players left to act

    "Player to left" has 1pp or weaker draw would have to call with SB left to act that could of checked to raiser

    SB has checked and now over called that weak bet out of position.

    The bad turn cards that make the villains straights.
    Villain would have to call your flop raise, with non-clean outs to a straight/weaker flush draws, with a player to act on that flush draw board.

    I like smaller raise too
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,115Administrator, LeadPro
    edited December 2016
    This one didnt make the podcast last week but I may talk about it next week..
    Hero though for about 1 minute before moving all-in. V1 took 3 minutes and finally called. Turn was a so Hero won with a flush. After he took so long with the call I actually didnt know if I had the best hand or if the villain was drawing at a higher flush.
  • MastaC707MastaC707 Posts: 95Subscriber
    I don't know how much I like a raise on this flop. It feels like you're turning your hand into a bluff.

    Your Q is probably good rite now. Your draw may or may not be good. People love their Ax suited. If your flush draw was smaller, I'd be more of a fan of check raising it to fold out higher FDs. But trying to get Kx or Ax FDs is pretty unlikely. So by raising you are decreasing the chances of over flushing someone and getting their stack. There's not really any worse Qx out there. JJ and worse pk pairs aren't gonna give you much more value.

    I feel you are better calling, closing the action and play the turn as it comes.

    The case can be made that no one has shown much strength so your FE might be high, but I don't see it that way in this spot. You said V1 is a big VIP, but not in which way. However he is raising 6x from pretty early position. I would think giving him a tighter more value based range here is prudent. So you're more likely to get called here on this board. Now he calls and the door is opened for other players to call thinking they now have odds.

    If V1 will make big calling mistakes, like will stack off with JJ, you can make more of a case to raise for thin value. Only you know where that line is from playing with him.

    Masta--
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    I love the all in line mainly b/c it allows u too realize your equity and gets players too fold equity ... if called on a raise or if u just call it's hard to determine which cards help u and which cards have reverse implied odds. I think the all in is a really good line.
    The question is what should you do if $4000 -$5000 effective against each stack in same situation?
Sign In or Register to comment.