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[3/5 NL] Ace high flush on non-pairing same suit river cards

DickDollarsDickDollars Posts: 26Member
These spots don't come up that often, but I still think it's important to think through them correctly. Incidentally, for me they came up ~24 hours apart - so my thinking on Hand 1 was still fresh when Hand 2 was evolving (w/ deeper stacks). My feeling about each was very different due to position/stack sizes/player even though both had tricky river cards.

Hand 1: ~$300 Effective

Blinds: $3/$5 | NLHE 9-handed
UTG: $300
BB: $550 (Hero)
Villain is A-B-C regular with very low bluffing frequency, probably close to 0% when bet to as opposed to being checked to.

Preflop ($8)
Hero was dealt QcTd
3 players limp, Hero checks BB

Flop ($20)
Kc 7d 4c
Checks through

Turn ($20)
Ac
Hero bets $20, only UTG calls

River ($60)
2c
Hero bets $75, UTG shoves for $205 more

If we think villain is incapable of shoving as a bluff over a strong lead, is there even a "range" to think about for him here? If river had paired the board with a club, and we both took the same line this would be a trivial fold against him. If this spot is also a trivial fold or close to one, what sort of pot odds would we consider calling if he was even shorter with his stack?

Hand 2: ~$850 Effective

Blinds: $3/$5 | NLHE 9-handed
UTG +1 : $1000
HJ: $80
Button: $850 (Hero)
Villain is unknown recreational player - he won a large pot in an overpair vs top pair situation where he shoved turn for more than a pot-sized bet and was called.

Preflop ($8)
Hero was dealt Ad4d
UTG+1 raises to $20, HJ calls, Hero calls

Flop ($65)
3d 9d 7h
UTG+1 checks, HJ shoves for $60, Hero raises to $125, UTG+1 calls

Turn ($375)
8d
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $175, UTG+1 calls

River ($725)
6d
UTG+1 shoves - $530 to hero

I am unable to assign a thought process to villain here for his line ...

Comments

  • eselspieleselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    Hand 1: Call you only lose to 35c. You've over-repped your hand by betting the A on the turn. (questionable move here) Call. ABC players do not limp UTG with those 35c. It is less than a pot-sized raise. What is the question?

    Hand 2: I don't understand isolating someone all-in with a draw. Are you trying to get a better A to fold? There is no side pot. Note to self, you want peeps with a worse draw to call here. Call the river, you have over-repped your hand at this point and may be getting action from someone who hit a straight or you overflushed. Does UTGopen raise with anything that beats your flush? Doubtful...again, what is the question?

    In general, fish don't think logically about hands and ranges, that's why they are fish. :)
  • DickDollarsDickDollars Posts: 26Member
    Hand 1: What is the question?
    Given that I bet more than pot on the river into a small pot, I hold the Qc, and villain puts the rest of the stack in here I'm surprised calling is considered a good play in a spot like this. I think the big river action - given all these variables - outweighs the unlikely hand combination.
    Hand 2: again, what is the question?
    Villain in Hand 2 did not show up w/ a flush. Given his line, I never considered folding. 1 of the reasons I posted the hand is to understand why he would take that line, and to think through how weak of a hand I might consider calling w/ here other than the near nuts that I hold.
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