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The Grind Poker Podcast No.3: Staying Motivated and Dealing with Burnout

CLP_CraigCLP_Craig Posts: 776Administrator
Host Rob Farha talks about dealing with motivational issues, as well as tips to make your time more efficient.

Episode post at 11AM PT.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/staying-motivated-and-dealing-with-burnout
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Comments

  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 408Subscriber
    "There are a lot of people out there who have it a lot worse for a lot less". Another very good podcast. Keep them coming Rob.
  • PocketAceTrader782PocketAceTrader782 Posts: 441Subscriber
    edited March 2016
    Excellent Podcast. I really enjoyed the goals discussion.

    Carmine
  • CajunDragonCajunDragon Posts: 173Member
    edited March 2016
    I'm trying to get the motivated to listen to the podcast ;)

    In all seriousness..... after playing for a living for almost 2 years at the low limits in Vegas, I agree with everything Rob preaches. I look forward to more of his podcasts!

    It's so hard to teach a lot of pokers intangible items. You'll eventually come to the same conclusions after putting in the hours. I think that's also what Mason Malmuth was trying to express but it came out completely wrong. I've read a lot of mental game books but you still have to put in the hours and condition yourself. They can guide you in the right direction on your journey however and they are definitely not useless. I'm still no where near the level I want to be in my poker career but CLP/Bart has been an amazing resource for me over the years.

    Geoff
  • version2version2 Posts: 6Subscriber
    Rob, I really like this podcast. It's very practical and you have a transparent style that makes you very credible and also approachable even by low stakes recreational players like me. So I'd like to ask you to elaborate on something I always hear veteran poker players discuss but never really define very well. Could you describe what exactly you mean when you refer to "good games" and "bad games," and how you identify them? I assume as a regular pro at the casinos where you play, you recognize the good professional players from the losing players, and I get that. But are there other characteristics of the table that help you know the game is bad? Also, do you regularly change tables while you're playing in search of the best game?
    One reason I ask is that as a recreational player, I only get to the casino for anywhere from 5 to 8 hours on a single day about once a month. I'm not there often enough to just look at a table and know whether it's a good game based solely on the faces I see there. I typically just add my name to the wait list, and have to take whatever table I'm assigned to (Winstar and Choctaw in Oklahoma). I can walk around and see the chips stacks, and watch a few hands of play every once in a while, but not sure how to quickly identify the best game in the room. If I had some ideas of how to identify the better tables, I could watch for a seat to come open. Thanks!
  • RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
    As the resident OMC on the site, one rule of thumb i use is the less people at the table that look like me the better.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Really, really like the podcast. Your common sense approach to problems is very logical and simple and just makes sense haha.

    While I havnt been in poker long and don't play long enough to get burned out one thing I have done in the past when I got burned out doing something was try to do something else related to that activity. A good option is teaching in some way. I used to get board doing graphic design , and I'm starting to again so I may have to start doing this again, but what I did to stop the boredom was start a youtube channel. It never got more than a few 100 subs but having a way to share what I was doing helped me stay motivated. It was also a good method of tracking my progess. Another good motivator.

    For poker obviously you don't have to start a poker channel but maybe you start posting more on forums or do some other type of poker writting. Maybe you try and coach. You could even start your own blog or podcast. Just having something that goes along with poker will help in my opinion. I'm sure if you ask bart or the other coaches on CLP Making training videos and podcast has not only helped their game but given them more motivation.
  • JohnGreenJohnGreen Posts: 2Subscriber
    I really enjoy Rob's podcasts. I'm miles from being a "pro" so the info is not particularly relevant to me but I just like the way you roll. You seem a lot older/wiser/more mature then the average 25yo dude. Thanks!
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    edited March 2016
    version2 wrote: »
    o I'd like to ask you to elaborate on something I always hear veteran poker players discuss but never really define very well. Could you describe what exactly you mean when you refer to "good games" and "bad games," and how you identify them? I assume as a regular pro at the casinos where you play, you recognize the good professional players from the losing players, and I get that. But are there other characteristics of the table that help you know the game is bad? Also, do you regularly change tables while you're playing in search of the best game?

    It differs in different locations. For example, here in Vegas, a lot of time what I would consider a "good game" (especially during the day, when I typically play) is a game full of very straightforward, weak players.

    There are a seemingly endless amount of people that are willing to limp/call 5x raises and check/fold to my flop bet, over and over again. My hourly comes from the sum of lots of small pots.

    For a lot of other places, California comes to mind for me, a "good game" means people that are playing way too aggressively and putting in large numbers of BB with hands they shouldn't. If I moved my weak, limpy Vegas game to Commerce it wouldn't be nearly as good given the flat drop on all the small pots I win.

    When you're looking at what table to play when you're at the casino, you should be able to have an idea of who's there to grind and who's there to lose money. For example, most but not all young guys with backpacks and headphones are more than likely there to play for profit, while older guys wearing button downs and drinking alcohol most likely aren't.

    It's of course not a perfect science, because there are plenty of young guys that I think are awful and plenty of older guys who I think play perfectly fine.

    The thing I would suggest to you is to try and be better at remembering faces, if people are there a lot, chances are they are better than the people you don't recognize. I don't really table change too often, but there are plenty of people who do. Game selection is a very important part of making money in poker. I just don't find it to be as pertinent in Vegas since a lot of the times the games are very equal in profitability, with the exception of when there is a lot of people in town.

    So just pay attention to your opponents, try and avoid tables full of serious looking people and seek tables where people are there to have a good time as opposed to there for work.
    Thanked by 1Baggio95
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    edited March 2016
    Really, really like the podcast. Your common sense approach to problems is very logical and simple and just makes sense haha.

    While I havnt been in poker long and don't play long enough to get burned out one thing I have done in the past when I got burned out doing something was try to do something else related to that activity. A good option is teaching in some way. I used to get board doing graphic design , and I'm starting to again so I may have to start doing this again, but what I did to stop the boredom was start a youtube channel. It never got more than a few 100 subs but having a way to share what I was doing helped me stay motivated. It was also a good method of tracking my progess. Another good motivator.

    For poker obviously you don't have to start a poker channel but maybe you start posting more on forums or do some other type of poker writting. Maybe you try and coach. You could even start your own blog or podcast. Just having something that goes along with poker will help in my opinion. I'm sure if you ask bart or the other coaches on CLP Making training videos and podcast has not only helped their game but given them more motivation.

    Yes. I mentioned learning new games as a way to keep poker fresh. My blog has been something fun to do over the years. Also as I mentioned, doing this for CLP has been a motivational spark for me as podcasting is a completely new thing for me.

    I try my best to avoid the monotony. Starting a blog, or keeping some kind of record of your thought processes and how they develop is something to keep yourself interested.
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    JohnGreen wrote: »
    I really enjoy Rob's podcasts. I'm miles from being a "pro" so the info is not particularly relevant to me but I just like the way you roll. You seem a lot older/wiser/more mature then the average 25yo dude. Thanks!
    irwinbet wrote: »
    "There are a lot of people out there who have it a lot worse for a lot less". Another very good podcast. Keep them coming Rob.
    Excellent Podcast. I really enjoyed the goals discussion.

    Carmine
    I'm trying to get the motivated to listen to the podcast ;)

    In all seriousness..... after playing for a living for almost 2 years at the low limits in Vegas, I agree with everything Rob preaches. I look forward to more of his podcasts!

    It's so hard to teach a lot of pokers intangible items. You'll eventually come to the same conclusions after putting in the hours. I think that's also what Mason Malmuth was trying to express but it came out completely wrong. I've read a lot of mental game books but you still have to put in the hours and condition yourself. They can guide you in the right direction on your journey however and they are definitely not useless. I'm still no where near the level I want to be in my poker career but CLP/Bart has been an amazing resource for me over the years.

    Geoff

    Thanks guys, appreciate the positive feedback.
  • fishcakefishcake Posts: 1,002Subscriber
    This was a great podcast and has been a breath of fresh air to this site. That being said, I want to comment on something you said about playing other games, Rob.

    I think that being able to play other games because your game may be mediocre is very overrated and probably even not necessary. The main reason for this is extreme variance and lack of volume at those other games. Take PLO, for example: you get like a maximum of 30 hands an hour, and probably at most 25 in a lot of games. IMO, there is no such thing as a live PLO professional poker player. The only one that may even qualify is Limon, who is getting a kick back from the casino for hosting the games. Otherwise, there are few (if any) players in the world playing PLO exclusively. Even if you were playing PLO exclusively for profit and no other games, your variance should be insane. It's such a slow game where even 10 years means next to nothing. It's also exploiting way more razor-thin edges than NLH, especially when all in.

    Now, O8 is inherently a different game than PLO, where you can exploit live players even more. There are more decisions than PLO because there are different ways to win/split a pot. More decisions = more opportunities for mistakes.

    If you are okay with insane variance because your game is "mediocre" and not worried about the money and/or how you will feel during and after the session then by all means sit a PLO game. JMO.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Also , another reason that may lend people to play longer sessions is the desire to be "Sick" We all hear the stories of the pros that would play crazy long sessions and it seems that everytime someone like ivey does an interview they have been up for 40 hours. While I think there are times where these super long sessions are plus EV for some people I don't think that is very often for the normal lowstakes grinder and think people's want to play these sessions is more based on a desire to be like the pros and be "Sick."
  • gilksgilks Posts: 14Subscriber
    Rob,

    You mentioned that Vegas 2/5 games are great during certain parts of the year and other times not so much. How would you compare the typical Vegas 2/5 games to Borgata on a typical weekend?

    Was gonna take an extended trip in the near future and was wondering what to expect.
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    edited March 2016
    gilks wrote: »
    Rob,

    You mentioned that Vegas 2/5 games are great during certain parts of the year and other times not so much. How would you compare the typical Vegas 2/5 games to Borgata on a typical weekend?

    Was gonna take an extended trip in the near future and was wondering what to expect.

    They're fine games, but comparatively to FL/Foxwoods/CA etc I think they're by far the worst of the bunch.

    Borgata's 2/5 was amazing when I was there, but I would also consider Borgata's 2/5 a level smaller when I compare it to Venetian/Aria/Wynn.

    Fwiw I haven't played at Borgata in 3+ years, but when I was there, those games were great. They play much smaller than the deeper Vegas games ime.