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  • marseillemarseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    In Oklahoma the locals favor "boat, bitch" lol
  • snapper35snapper35 Posts: 243Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    V2 weak bet and then snaps call...
    Wouldnt you bet more and think about calling a raise with sm PPs on flop?

    V2 ISNT A REG. I dont give people credit until they show me something. In this hand as played, Im not giving V2 credit for a tight range or monsters all the sudden because of one action on one street. You have a good baseline for range now just stick with it.

    I think your leaving out A SHIT TON of flush combo's. Your flush draw range is way to clean for V being on BTN. How about KJ/K10-more gappers and lower. 45cc if you got 45ss in range and so on.
    I put in more disconnected big cards, middle s/c's and some gappers too. Now you can decide to take out some smaller s/c's when he calls raise. BUT thats still alot more FD than sm PPs that play this way. AND if thats what you range him to then he cant take much heat. If your CR flop opos then keep going with read and take this pot.
    If I was V2 with AKss, I let the the blinds come in being on BTN cause a raise gets V1 to fold AX hands. So dont just take that out of range from preflop.
    TRN-Ace doesnt hit his FD range for top pair all the sudden either.

    You can give him how many ever combos of sm PPs but does he play them that away?
    BART will discount 1/2 of that range if V has played it weird. So 24 combos of sm PPs. Cause you wouldnt expect 44-QQ to weak bet flop, cause V2 fears over cards hitting. Then V2 has to call your raise, so you would range that call to bigger PPs with a spade now if he plays big PPs that way, again.
    With that weak bet on flop I want to see more from V. If V all the sudden bombs later in hand then you know he slow played or hit draw.

    Plan on turning your hand in to bluff if V still show weakness. You dont rep much but he doesnt know that, your an UNK too.

  • ANason21ANason21 Posts: 166Subscriber
    snapper35 wrote: »
    I think your leaving out A SHIT TON of flush combo's. Your flush draw range is way to clean for V being on BTN. How about KJ/K10-more gappers and lower. 45cc if you got 45ss in range and so on. I put in more disconnected big cards, middle s/c's and some gappers too.

    First, we have the 9 and 10 of spades, so he can't have K10. Can't have K9 either, or J9, etc. The reality of combinatorics is that there just aren't that many FDs he can have. There certainly aren't A SHIT TON. Even if we assume he's calling all Kings, all connectors, and all one-gappers, which just seems unreasonably wide, then his flush draw range consists of AK, AQ, AJ, A8, A7, A6, A5, A4, KQ, KJ, K8, K7, K6, K5, K4, QJ, 87, 86, 76, 75, 65, 64, and 54. That's only 23 combinations. 24 if you also want to throw in 54cc. He only needs to play QQ, JJ, TT, 99, and 88 like this to have as many pocket pairs in his range, and if he's playing AK like this, why not also give him KK? It just seems that you guys that are saying he's way more likely to have a flush draw here are just looking at the two spades on the board without considering the math behind the situation and the reality that flush draws are rare by nature.
  • snapper35snapper35 Posts: 243Subscriber
    edited August 2015

    For the FD's, I said AND so on...
    "The reality of combinatorics" is you just went from 10 combos to 23 AND Q8/J8/J7ss is 26 so discounting more than half the range is not good. If you agree from 10 to 26 that changes so much. I keep a V range as wide as reasonable to start then discount as hand is played. 45cc/45hh/45dd/A4's and A5's too. AKhh/cc/dd take one off?

    "I think your range assessment is way off"
    I could flip your 48-10 in favorite of draws and discount PPs calling twice preflop, then weak bets flop and snap-calls a CR from a PFR opos???

    You are the sudden giving a V credit on the BTN after calling twice pre flop, weak betting flop and snap-calling???

    Its 5-10 if you are giving him credit as a 5-10 player it should be more that V knows that your capped @1 pair hands and with 45cc/A4hh inpos he doesnt have to hit his hand and can bluff at spades. If your giving him credit, then he knows that 2 gappers would be bettor calling you than the broadways.

    You took out all these FD combos and he is on the BTN just calling. BUT when he snap- calls your CR you leave in ALL the sm PPs in? Thats not "math", just adding pair combos.
    AGAIN BART when V shoulndt play PPs like this then you discount the 48 in HALF.
    Thats 24 combos of PPs. Yes, AA/KK can be there to but take half of them out too, 3.

    This range is just to get started then deduce with action, bet and positions

    I could say-
    Your leaving QQ-88 in V range. That is reading the board saying "What beats me?" so I fold. That is reading the board only, NOT the entire given story of the hand.

    You range him, the flop comes and then keep deducing from there. You DONT just discount flushes and say he doesnt have it cause its rare? But scared of monster all the sudden!
    What are you going to range him to then? Hearts, clubs or diamonds? No so work backwards and see if it fits V pre and flop actions. It doesnt mean he doesnt have spades BUT the hands isnt over yet either.

    The point for the FD range is more for when the ACE hits TRN.
    Like 8 combos of AXss, so that leaves 20 other spade hands that didnt hit the ACE AND ALL your PPs hands that cant take any heat so BET. The A on turn isnt as scary with given range.

    BET the turn and go from there.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2015
    I bet $250. He seemed to pretend to think for a few moments and announced all in. I folded.
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