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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

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Two pair with flush hitting river. Bet?

2/5 game, about $1000 deep with villain. Hero has some history with villain. Villain is on the looser side, not afraid to bluff and take stabs when no one is showing aggression. Wins a decent number of pots, but probably a slight losing player. Earlier in the session hero over limped with 55, called villain's button raise to $30 with another player, check-called completing the action on a 337 flop, checked through on a 8 turn, and called villain's $100 river bet on a Q when villain had AK. Villain said later in the session, but before the hand below, that my call with 55 in that spot put him on tilt. I didn't explain my reasons for calling him, I also stacked him in the past when he hit two pair on a K92 board and I had KK. He's kind of a little out to get me.

Hero is UTG + 1 and raises to $20 with A :s: Q :s:. Villain next to act calls, and the blinds call. Four ways to the flop, pot is $80.

Flop A Q T :s:

Checks to hero, hero bets $60, villain calls. Pot is $200.

Turn 4

Hero bets $165. Villain calls. Pot is $530.

River 6

Hero?

Comments

  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    is he capable of coming back over you with a bluff? If not I just bet fold. Do you think he would bluff this river for sure? If so maybe check call. I prefer betting as it would stink if he checks
    Back a worse hand that he would Call a bet with
  • iamalliniamallin Posts: 1,173Subscriber, Professional
    "He is kind of a little out to get me"
    Do you think he feels the same way about you?
    If yes, then you should absolutely bomb the river. $400+ I say. And hope that he is unable to fold an ace.

    If he doesn't think you can bluff big, then a standard $300 bet is fine. You probably have to fold if he raises in either case.

    Even the most lose aggressive of players will hesitate to raise the river against someone who has bet on all 3 streets.

    That's just my input.
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,108Administrator, LeadPro
    edited August 2015
    Remember, players at the midstakes for the most part are incapable of recognizing that they are beat to turn what they perceive to be a medium strength hand into a bluff. You are never going to see this guy raise the river with A× X× to represent A X. Also because he called you next to act it is highly unlikely that he has T X or J X. There is one lingering combo of J 9 that is possible. Easy bet for value and fold to raise at the end probably $300-350.
    Thanked by 1StarwarsJediMaster
  • ANason21ANason21 Posts: 166Subscriber
    Thanks for the comments, guys. I think failing to go for full value on hands like these is a big leak in my game. Here, I checked planning to call, thinking that he'd likely not call with a bare ace, but might bet if checked to. Of course he checked behind with AKo, and likely would have made a crying call for another $300.
    Thanked by 1StarwarsJediMaster
  • FoldtoMyRaiseFoldtoMyRaise Posts: 312Subscriber
    Did the villian have the Ad?
  • ANason21ANason21 Posts: 166Subscriber
    Did the villian have the Ad?
    No, it was the A. Villain had no diamonds.

  • FoldtoMyRaiseFoldtoMyRaise Posts: 312Subscriber
    I agree that this hand is a bet-fold unless the villian is very aggressive. I would bet around $275-300 and fold to a decent raise.
  • marseillemarseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    I just listened to Bart's discussion of this hand on the podcast. I think his point about this being a textbook bet/fold speaks to the strength of core CLP strategy- bracketing certain actions because most rec players are incapable of them. But it also suggests its limitations vs strong players, who if you listen to CLP are about as common as unicorns at 2/5. I know several players in my modest 2/5 and 5/10 player pool who are completely capable of turning an Ad into a bluff here vs a solid player (though stacks might need to be a little deeper here). In fact, countering bet/fold lines from good players with bluff raises using blockers and "relatively" capped ranges/ tight fits has become a pretty important part of my game since so many regs are actually decent. CLP is great and I love the content and forums but there is an LA bias that runs through it that subtly reinforces the assumption that we are usually up against dolts. Obviously it's up to players to adapt strategies to their own local/regional poker economies. But at times I think CLP content lacks perspective on realties of midstakes poker. Just compare the play of PokerNight vs Poker on Air. Honestly, which is the tougher game?
  • hectorjellyhectorjelly Posts: 47Subscriber
    Where do you play Marseille?
  • marseillemarseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    Somewhere in the wasteland know as the Midwest :(
    Thanked by 1hectorjelly
  • Chicago IronChicago Iron Posts: 68Subscriber
    marseille wrote: »
    I just listened to Bart's discussion of this hand on the podcast. I think his point about this being a textbook bet/fold speaks to the strength of core CLP strategy- bracketing certain actions because most rec players are incapable of them. But it also suggests its limitations vs strong players, who if you listen to CLP are about as common as unicorns at 2/5. I know several players in my modest 2/5 and 5/10 player pool who are completely capable of turning an Ad into a bluff here vs a solid player (though stacks might need to be a little deeper here). In fact, countering bet/fold lines from good players with bluff raises using blockers and "relatively" capped ranges/ tight fits has become a pretty important part of my game since so many regs are actually decent. CLP is great and I love the content and forums but there is an LA bias that runs through it that subtly reinforces the assumption that we are usually up against dolts. Obviously it's up to players to adapt strategies to their own local/regional poker economies. But at times I think CLP content lacks perspective on realties of midstakes poker. Just compare the play of PokerNight vs Poker on Air. Honestly, which is the tougher game?

    So say we check the river and villian makes a big bet are we ever calling? If we think he could very well have floated the turn with the naked A to bluff repping the nuts even though he could very well have say the A J what do we do? To me it would seem like you'd need to get a live tell.

    I only ask because I feel there are players that I play with that are capable of doing this. I feel like the room I play at is significantly tougher than the Cali rooms so many people on here talk about.
  • marseillemarseille Posts: 400Subscriber
    It's a tough spot for sure. I think usually Bart et al are right, most players aren't going to put you in that spot and you can value bet with impunity at midstakes. But if you are up against competent players- something not as uncommon as is sometimes made out- than you need to prepare for tough spots and look for opportunities to put good opponents in tough spots. It's a lot easier to put yourself in the shoes of a good player than a bad. Think about what would make you uncomfortable-then do it to your opponents. Be unorthodox until it becomes unprofitable.
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