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Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
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Would you value bet here in this already huge pot? Bart would, which is why he wins more than I do

UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
V1 is loose guy who overbets with medium strength hands and bets small with monsters. I didn't know that before, so I even snap folded top pair when he bet pot on a J 7 3 board

V2 is a grinder who limps a lot and raises bigger than average with good hands. Pretty face up pre-flop

V1 straddles in 2/5 game

Guy in EP limps
V2 raises to 60
I flat with AsQs
V1 defends straddle
Limped folds

I think it was about $1k effective and I am the shortest stack
$197 Ac 9c 6s flop
Checked to me and I bet $125
V1 calls
V2 thinks for a while and also makes the call

Turn is 9d ($572)
V1 bets $400
V2 tank folds

If V2 called, it would be an easy fold for me. If V1, didn't bet so absurdly huge with medium strength hands like I saw him do a few times, I would have given him credit for a 9. But I thought AQ was most likely good here

River was offsuit 4 and V1 quickly checks

I happily checked back and was good. In retrospect, it wasn't a bad spot to bet?

Comments

  • If this guy is bad enough to basically check call, pot out on turn with a weak ace then yes, I'm moving in on the river even though your hand looks extremely strong. Where you planning on folding river to a shove? This is a very awkward spot with these stack sizes. I'm counting $1372 in the pot when you call the turn and you have about $400 left. If he is not bluffing a busted draw on the river I'd probably move in on the turn. As played you have to go for that missed bit of value at the end. In normal circumstances though I would fold to a lot of players on the turn. This is going to be a 9 a ton of the time, especially when the preflop raiser checked and you bet.

    Bart
  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    His sizing really messed with my head a little at the time, which is why I'm now wondering how I don't have an extra $400 in my wallet

    I would have considered folding the river depending on his speed or confidence because I still wasn't too sure on the turn. I feel like this particular villain often slows down on the river
  • chilidogchilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    I think most heros in this spot are happy to showdown AQ, so don't feel bad. But is he checking a better hand on the river? It is possible he might check AK otr, but I highly doubt he checks 9x (or better) after bombing the turn. He can't expect you to value own yourself often enough for him to check a better hand, as very few players are betting the river in your spot with AQ. It seems like he is strongly weighted towards draws when he checks river, but I think we have to give him a chance to call with Ax by betting small-ish, maybe $300-400.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
    Raise turn maybe- I guess Bart has a point draws will call. Kindve thin to me. River is a defn bet. Most people wont chk a 9 on the river will little left since they know you will call getrting great pot odds w an ace. He may call with a weaker ace or maybe ev en less putting u on a busted draw yourself since you just called his turn bet.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I think that you have to go with your read here. If you think that you are good with AQ on the turn based on Villian's sizing tell, then you have to close your eyes and get it in on the river. You will be giving Villian great odds to call (almost 4.5/1 - Villian needs to be good less than 20% of the time) given that it's $400 for him to call to win a pot of ~$1800, so weaker Aces should at least be thinking about calling.
  • BigOwlBigOwl Posts: 80Member
    Bart said

    If this guy is bad enough to basically check call, pot out on turn with a weak ace then yes, I'm moving in on the river even though your hand looks extremely strong. Where you planning on folding river to a shove? This is a very awkward spot with these stack sizes. I'm counting $1372 in the pot when you call the turn and you have about $400 left. If he is not bluffing a busted draw on the river I'd probably move in on the turn. As played you have to go for that missed bit of value at the end. In normal circumstances though I would fold to a lot of players on the turn. This is going to be a 9 a ton of the time, especially when the preflop raiser checked and you bet.

    Bart
    Hey Bart, if we move in on turn isn't he folding everything except a 9? If there's a chance he calls river with weaker Ace, then I like calling and getting in on river. Real problem is what to do if he shoves river, does that make it too likely we're beat to call? I'm thinking that if our reason for calling turn is that he bets this amount when he is not that strong, then it's OK to call and fold if he shoves river. So, the reason we're calling this bet, is the reason we don't shove turn or call river.
  • MikeMike Posts: 371Member
    Shoving turn is much better than calling and shoving river vs his range because if hes shutting it down on the turn a lot then you are just letting him realize his equity (even if its 0 he doesnt know that) By shoving turn you get all the draws to call and still likely the weaker Ax type of hands that are going to call a river bet. i dont think it makes a difference when the money goes in with his range of calling the river bet the only thing it changes is letting him draw for free if he has one.

    I also like a 3b pf if you are IP. It would help a little bit to know the positions of everyone in the hand as well.
  • BigOwl said



    Hey Bart, if we move in on turn isn't he folding everything except a 9? If there's a chance he calls river with weaker Ace, then I like calling and getting in on river. Real problem is what to do if he shoves river, does that make it too likely we're beat to call? I'm thinking that if our reason for calling turn is that he bets this amount when he is not that strong, then it's OK to call and fold if he shoves river. So, the reason we're calling this bet, is the reason we don't shove turn or call river.
    The pot is so bloated up that he is going to be getting a decent reverse price facing a shove on the turn. It looks like over 4-1. I dont see him bet folding out his draws--I see him bet calling. And I agree with Mike ^^^ here. By not shoving, if he doesn't bluff the river than you are giving him a free card to realize his equity.

    Bart
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    OP said that villain bombs with medium strengh hands, but we don't know if he does that with draws at all.

    So, if we put him on AJ, AT type of hands a lot of the time, we should call the turn and bet the river, right? By doing so, we make our range look weaker / like a draw, so he will call a river shove.
    (This goes out of the window if he will call a turn shove with AJ as well. I don't know if he would, but it's still 400 more, so he should fold at least sometimes I guess.)
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