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Flopped set of K's on dry board with bad image, how to get a hero call from weak hand?

UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
3/5 at Talking Stick in Arizona

Folded a couple rivers earlier when I actually had a hand, but it looked like I was bluffing the flop.
I have a pretty bad image, and it looks like I might be steaming a little. Stationed off in a high leveling hero call spot against V3 when he was turning top pair into a bluff when I called with second pair.

Hero ~650 effective, didn't get to reload before this hand
V1 ~500 effective
V2 ~1200 effective
V3 ~covers

V2 is a fishy old guy
V12 (main villain) is the lady grinder who in the poker room like 16 hours per day, almost every day. If anyone's a reg here, you probably know who I'm talking about. Hates me, considers me a LAGtard and a station, and always thinks I'm bluffing, 3-betting light, etc. and folds to 3-bets 0% of the time against me
V3 is a TAGgy younger guy

V3 raises to 20 from CO
V2 calls from button
Hero raises to 85 with KK in SB
V1 tank calls 85
V3 folds
V2 calls

So it's 275 to the flop
K T 7 rainbow
Hero (SB) bets 110
V3 (BB) thinks for a while and calls
V2 (BU) snap overcalls
I always bet small in 3-bet pots on dry flops to give myself a good price on my bluffs, so I'm keeping it consistent this time. Please no more comments on my flop bet size. It's a style/balance thing.

Turn offsuit 5
I have 400 and change left, which is actually less than a pot size bet, but it still looks like a big bet
The problem with betting small is, I'm giving any type of open ended straight draw a good price, and I'll be forced to pay off on the river.
Now, do I check and slowplay, bet small, or ship it and try to make it look like (to V2) I'm frustrated and trying to buy the pot?
The problem with having top set here is, it's unlikely that someone else has a K, so I'm really trying to make it look like I'm bluffing to get called by something worse than a K.


  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    What looks like you are bluffing? Ship it!

    With both villains in the hand I think you need to just ship it. As you said you pretty much cant make a smaller bet and not call any river. If it was heads up against V1 then I might consider betting small since you know she will call you light.

    Considering your image is so bad if you ship it you just might get both to call you and that would be the best of all scenarios.. V1 might call you light and V2 could be on the straight draw.

    btw I dont really think this is all that dry.. Yes there arent any flush draws but there are whole boatload of straight draws and basically you should be worried about any A, Q, J, 9 or 8...and maybe even a 6.. if you assume 4 cards each thats a possible 20 outs if both are on draws to protect against..

    Very weird to be betting to protect your equity but thats what I would do.. you would still be giving them 3 or 4:1

  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    If I were bluffing...
    Well, I'm not stupid enough to bluff the turn when they both call the flop. But the lady grinder might not know that because she thinks I'm spazzier than I actually am.

    If this were NL, I might have even shipped the flop to make it look bluffy. But I couldn't do that because this was $500 max bet spread limit. So I opted for my usual tiny rainbow flop bet in 3-bet flops, which I do almost 100% of the time

    If I ship it, they should really both fold anything weaker than sets, but that might not happen. And if I check, I'm not sure if anyone's betting
  • MikeMike Posts: 371Member
    the pot is like 600 and you are worried about shipping 400? Just ship it in. anything else would be silly.
  • shmedshmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Other problem with checking is you are in a reverse implied odds situation in the river where any draws can play perfectly -- fold if they miss, bet and potentially get your stack if they hit. I think you need to bet here and shoving is probably the optimal play -- especially since you describe both your image and your opponents as the type that will be suspicious of your bet and be more likely to call.

    One thing that you can experiment with if you think they are aggressive is to bet an absurdly small amount, e.g. $20 or $40. This might induce a big raise from at least one of them. I would want to have that read however -- the downside is the same as checking which allows them a freeish card and reverse implied odds against you.
  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    I'm now failing to understand why this is ever anything but a shove. I need to remind myself to get back to the basics next time I play
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    If you are afraid a turn shove looks too strong, you could also bet something like 140 on the flop, so the turn bet gets smaller in relation to the pot and therefore will get called more often.
  • I think with multiple people in the hand when you cbet twice you are not getting called by second pair no matter what your sizing is. Because of this I would definitely shove as you are committed to calling the river and anything less actually may price in QJ or 89. For example, betting $200 into $400 gives immediate 3-1 plus your extra $200 that you have left. Even though it is a slight error for them to call why screw around? I also like Whats ^^ comment above. Betting a tiny bit larger on the flop leads to a standard size all in one the turn (one that doesn't seem like such a big bet to live players).

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