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A tale of two bluffs: You guess which got called

JerseyJayJerseyJay Posts: 181Subscriber
I'm just wondering what you guys think of these bluffs. Decent? And also which you think got called and why. I'll post the hands first and then add my thoguhts and reasoning after a few responses. Thanks in advance.

In both hands I am a mid thirties white guy. :) Both are at 5-5 $300-$1000 at an east coast casino.
Hand 1
About 2-3 hours into session. My image is likely competant, maybe on the aggressive side. I have @$1k villain covers I open in LP over 2 limpers w K5dd for $35 and get 4 callers. $175 flop is Q84ssd It checks to me and I check it. Turn is 2d. Tight guy in EP leads for $60. Solid older guy raises to $150. He has been active and shown down some good hands. I make it $350. Guy who lead snap folds. Old guy tanks for 3 minutes and calls. Doesn't look like he loves it. $925 ti the river which is 4s completing front door flush and pairing the board. Old guy checks I quickly make it $550 and he...

Hand 2
I have just sat down at the table, dealt my second hand. Villain is unknown younger guy. Neither f us have played together before.

I am dealt 68cc on button. Young guy raises from middle position to $25 I call blind calls. $75 Flop A72hh. Villain leads for $35 I make it $100 blind folds. $275 Turn is Xh. Villain chks I make it $125 he tank calls. $475 River offsuit 10. He checks I make it $375 and he...

Which one gets called? Do you like these bluffs? Why or why not? Also, we can skip the "real money at these stakes is done by value betting...etc" shpeal. I've listened to Bart a long time and totally subscribe to that phiosophy. However, I do find spots to be aggressive if I sense weakness or think I have a situation where I can get a fold and I will take it. I will do this once or twice a session. These hands are from different sessions.

Comments

  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Hand 1. I think the guy that seemed unhappy is more likely to call you because you checked the flop.. On a wet board in pos I think you would bet pretty much any pair, flush draw, set, etc... If i had to guess I think villain in hand 1 snap calls you or raises all in with a flush. Your line makes less sense in Hand 1..

    Hand 2. I think you are repping min 2 pr+.. the fact this guy calls the flop and your small turn bet he probably has an Ace and your bet on the river looks like a value bet and unless he has 2pr I think he would be more likely to fold this hand since raised the flop..


    oh and its Shpiel/spiel..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Yiddish_origin

    Cool

    ww
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I don't know what you try to rep in both hands? I would expect to get called down more in hand 1, because your line looks so FOS and he has a lot of flushes in his range. Really don't like both, though.
  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    Objectively, I think you deserved to win hand 1 and lose hand 2.

    Hand 2 was very spewy with the little equity you were bluffing with. Hand 1, I guess you could be repping the flush if you don't cbet every time multi-way with a flush draw.
  • shmedshmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    I don't understand what you are repping in Hand #1. The turn changed nothing, and two solid/tight players that checked to the raiser on the flop (so their check doesn't mean weakness), raise and reraise. I think they both have something decent and I don't think you can get past both of them here. I almost feel like you bet the dangerous river card because it was the only way you could win the hand (I've been there). But I think the solid player has something he can call here (perhaps made flushes, outside chance of sets turned FH).

    Hand 2, I would have preferred to play a few hands first to get a better sense of the table. If played, I prefer flatting/floating the flop with the plan to represent hearts if it came in. On the turn, I would bet fairly big to represent the flush.

    As you played it, was the A a heart? It's harder to represent a 3-bet with the nut FD if the Ah is already on the board. You are representing something strong like a set here, aggressively played (some would slow down when the FD comes in on the turn, but obviously not all). I put him on something like a pair of Aces or a weak flush (all combo draws would involve wheel draw cards), and depending on what kind of player he is, he may/may not fold the river (I think of the two this bluff is one is the more likely to have worked), but you having a strong flush is less believable because of the flop 3bet and question about A suit.
  • JerseyJayJerseyJay Posts: 181Subscriber
    Hnd 1 the guy tanked forever and folded, muttering about "worst card in the deck". In that hand i thought the turn raisers bet was super weak with 60 into 175 and i was planning to raise but old man beat me to it. I thought he saw same as me and might be very weak and i could get a fold right there because i could rep a slowplayed set or even overpair. If not i could still catch a diamond, or win if his flush bricks. I didnt think about the board pairing but when it did i thought he also might fold a small flush to a substantial bet as i was repping a slowplayed set of qq or 88 turned into a boat or maybe even a larger flush. He folded the baby flush.

    Hand two i got rivered a bit, as the villain tanked for like 5 minutes and barely called after rivering two pair w ace ten. If that river is not a ten he folds. My first thought was just a read that he was probably cbetting with everything; young kid, etc. so i thought i could fold out most pairs and other crap he cbets with on flop. Plus, if a flush came in i could rep an aggressively played flush. So when the turn is a flush i rep that.

    Amazing how much your variance can go up when you are aggressive. I could have easily just folded both of these hands and moved on. However, i think if we pick good spots we can win a bit more than we lose on moves like this, and then the cincher is the value you get from your winners with the image you earn.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    It does demonstrate how so many players are playing their own hands and not your range..

    It also goes to show that its suicide to bluff someone when they have top pair of aces..

    ww
  • MikeMike Posts: 371Member
    First id like to say sorry if i mimic someone elses comments. Just replying blind without reading others thoughts.

    Id say first hand is the one that gets called. Your range is almost all bluffs in this spot. You never have anything good here. You should be cb the flop with 2p+ and flush draws.

    hand 2
    I dont like this play at all. I dont really get why you are trying to get people to fold the top of their range. You are picking spots where your value range is so narrow anyone with half a brain should consider calling super light. What are you repping here? Seems to me like you are trying to rep a set or Axhh. The reason thin value betting is good is because the players dont see it often. You are putting yourself in a spot where the villian is gonna think you have the nuts or nothing so you should be getting called down light. I feel like the villian in this hand is going to put you on Axhh or nothing since he doesnt see anyone bomb the river when the fd gets there with a set.
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