Welcome.

Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

SPR theory and practice, as it relates to buy-ins

RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
All

Ok, so some of my recent tough situations may be due to having bad SPR.

General question: How much do you use SPR? And does anyone use it to determine how much to buy-in for?

My situation:

Recreational player. Play 1-2x week in the winter, say 3-4 hours/session. Play less in the summer. Played 100 hours last year.

The 2 most commonly spread games at Parx are 1-2 (60 min, 300 max), and 2-5 (200 min, 500 max).

I have been playing more 2-5 lately if I feel the game is good (definition: 5+ tables of 2-5 going on). I use to buy in for 500, I've been buying in for 1000 lately. Up till this weekend I've felt better about 1K than 500 because I feel it gives me more room to play more hands; but it does make getting a good SPR on say AK tough, given the standard raise to say 20-25, you can get a lot of SPRs around 13 on the flop which is bad.

So just trying to get a feel for how people approach their buyin amount for a given game. I was reading on two plus two, limon's comment that he brought in for as much as the worst player and no more, and if he didn't know anyone, he bought in for 70 BB. If I did that at say 2-5, I would buyin say for 350; see if there are any fish; I can always add on to get to their level; and if everyone is tough, I can just play good SPR poker with big hands, punt on the draws, and get myself on the 1-2 list (likewise, I've been buying into 1-2 with 300 but maybe 100-150 is better).

Then again, if I buy in lighter, I can't make as much if I do hit the nuts and get someone to stack off.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • shmedshmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    My preference is to buy in for as deeply as the table max or my comfort level allows. I find that it's easier to barrel and get FE equity because of the threat of future bets to opponents stack. It's also easier to maneuver post-flop, and you have more ways of getting information on you opponents hand on later streets. The shorter we are, the more ABC I try to play, and yes you need to consider SPR more when betting.

    You mentioned your 2-5 game is 500 max -- but you can buy in for 1000 when you want? It would be a great structure to play 2-5 200 BB deep (assuming you are comfortable with the money involved).

    Although I understand the point of buying in short and it comes down to personal preference, I prefer to buy in deep because I play better poker that way, and just get up if I don't like the table. I think you can also minimize risk to your stack by playing tighter and more selectively if need be.
  • Fish FryerFish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    RogerHardy said

    All

    Ok, so some of my recent tough situations may be due to having bad SPR.

    General question: How much do you use SPR? And does anyone use it to determine how much to buy-in for?

    My situation:

    Recreational player. Play 1-2x week in the winter, say 3-4 hours/session. Play less in the summer. Played 100 hours last year.

    The 2 most commonly spread games at Parx are 1-2 (60 min, 300 max), and 2-5 (200 min, 500 max).

    I have been playing more 2-5 lately if I feel the game is good (definition: 5+ tables of 2-5 going on). I use to buy in for 500, I've been buying in for 1000 lately. Up till this weekend I've felt better about 1K than 500 because I feel it gives me more room to play more hands; but it does make getting a good SPR on say AK tough, given the standard raise to say 20-25, you can get a lot of SPRs around 13 on the flop which is bad.

    So just trying to get a feel for how people approach their buyin amount for a given game. I was reading on two plus two, limon's comment that he brought in for as much as the worst player and no more, and if he didn't know anyone, he bought in for 70 BB. If I did that at say 2-5, I would buyin say for 350; see if there are any fish; I can always add on to get to their level; and if everyone is tough, I can just play good SPR poker with big hands, punt on the draws, and get myself on the 1-2 list (likewise, I've been buying into 1-2 with 300 but maybe 100-150 is better).

    Then again, if I buy in lighter, I can't make as much if I do hit the nuts and get someone to stack off.

    Thoughts?
    You mentioned a 100bb cap, and a 1k buy-in, which doesn't quite compute. Having played at Parx a few times, it is definitely a 200bb max buy-in.

    I think SPR gives you a pretty good idea of how to play types of hands, and it is a great guideline, but sometimes the "ideal" number just cannot be met. Ultimately, I think (and I mean no offense) a lot of your post boils down to an unfamiliarity of playing deep stack poker. I play in a 100bb max 2/5 game and a 200bb 5/T game, and there are definite differences in play. If you are going to play deep, you have to be willing to use all of the tools in your arsenal e.g. raise/folding, check-raising, double barreling, etc... Often the shorter stack size takes away some of the creativity that deep stacks allow, and deprives you of the chance to develop that portion of your game.

    I prefer to buy-in full for all the games I play, but I have a friend that plays all sessions starting with an 80bb stack and I think he plays that strategy quite well. Don't worry about what others might think, develop your own style for your comfort level.
  • RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
    Thanks for the responses.

    Yes total typo on my part the 2-5 Parx max buy-in is 1000 not 500. So you can sit 150 BB deep in the 1-2 game, and 200 BB deep in the 2-5 game.

    Good point about my unfamiliarity playing deep stack poker, something I need to work on; and playing a bit tighter before committing all my chips is a good place to start.

    Roger
  • Fish FryerFish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    RogerHardy said

    Thanks for the responses.

    Yes total typo on my part the 2-5 Parx max buy-in is 1000 not 500. So you can sit 150 BB deep in the 1-2 game, and 200 BB deep in the 2-5 game.

    Good point about my unfamiliarity playing deep stack poker, something I need to work on; and playing a bit tighter before committing all my chips is a good place to start.

    Roger
    FWIW - One of my favorite aspects of deep stack poker is the freedom it can allow you to play in late position. Of course, you can open your range wider and wider based on your comfort in post flop play and the willingness of your opponents to pay you off. You can really open your range fairly wide in late position. Hand reading, ranging, postflop play all become more important the deeper the stacks get IMO. The good news is that this is all stuff that you can work on while at the table and not involved in the hand. Pick an opponent that you see often and spend an hour trying to really understand what he is trying to do at the table. Once you figure that out, figure out the proper way to play against his range that will get all his chips, e.g. let him keep bluffing at pots, keep stealing pots from him, etc...

    Good luck!
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I agree with what Zach has posted.. one thing to note... Most of the podcasts that Bart does is all from a deepstack perspective.. So many of the plays that he talks about in hands simply couldnt be done in a say 80 or 60 bbs capped game.. In capped games the spr on the flop could go suddenly down to 1 and on an really ugly turn card do you go all in? do you check? many times you would be pot committed if you bet anything close to the pot.

    If you are just moving up from 1/2 to 2-5 I would actually recommend not playing 200bbs deep.. Play 100bbs deep until you feel more confortable with the bigger bets .. after a little while take shots at the 200bbs stack and see how different it is.. Many players are under the mindset "I dont stack off on a one pair hand".. but if your read that the villian in the hand has worse than you then why shouldnt you go all in? Thats tough when you are used to playing with 200 stacks..

    ww
  • TechranmanTechranman Posts: 11Member
    The thing about playing in smaller games, is that often you can really manipulate the size of the pot in ways that you can't against good players. For instance a raise to 25 and two calls pretty much make the SPR 13, which is bad, but then you can bet smaller on subsequent streets with no problem. So instead of stack at 1k and the pot starting at 75 --> bet 50 call call (pot= 225) --> bet 150 call call (pot = 675) with 775 remaining, you can bet 1/2 pot otf and turn as a large number of players are unaware of the pot size and "proper sized/internet style" 2/3+ pot bets seem HUGE in LLSNL.

    You can also buy in for 130bbs and enjoy your 8 SPR ratio (3 ways) if you are really worried.
Sign In or Register to comment.