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How many time per hour or session are you check raising a field player?

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
I have been incorporating into my play raising or check raising field players with just draws.. even as bad as gutshots.. they seem to be working as most villains see me as tight and give me credit for something better than they have.. Since I have just started doing this more I was curios for the folks that are doing it more often how often do they do it.

I would imagine there is a fine line to do it too much and getting a laggy image vs keeping the tight image and getting more fold equity..

Ww

Comments

  • JeJoJeJo Posts: 56Member
    I think I raise standard draws seldom because I don't expect my opponents to fold that much on 2/2 blinds. Maybe it is a leak of mine but I always wait for the taggy opponents to do that. I only raise recreationals with a draw (or with air) if their betting indicate a vulnerable hand (because of prior recognized betting patterns).

    This two conditions occur not that often. Thus I would estimate my checkraise draw/air ratio is once per 5-10 hours or so. Difficult to say.
  • ArenzanoArenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    Playing your draws aggressively if you have correct odds is good. If you are viewed as a tight player, you can c/r or raise certain boards with a fair amount of success, but if you are doing this too often, players will play back at you. I tend to think it is more about looking for the correct situation (player type and board) and I would want to make sure I have a winning table image too.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I was curious about this because if because I am folding alot and I end up with a too nitty image then I wont get paid off on my big hands. So I have tried to start check raising draws more.. This has generally been in limped pots against opponents I am sure are betting a wider range.. But I think in limped pots it would work against tighter players too since they are more likely to fold without a monster. I believe these will be easy to play since if I am three bet I can just fold easily.

    Last night I check raised two field betters.. both from the blinds.. Once I have a gutter, two overs and a K high flush draw.. Player folded when I check raised him all in.. The other hand I had A 9 os in the sb and the board was 567 rainbow and I check raised big a player who had been betting his draws alot.. He thought about calling until I started talking.. lol.. used the reverse tell to get him to fold the pot..

    But they worked! and if I had been called and won these hands then my uber nitty image is gone and a good dangerous its replaced with.. I should be able to get alot more action but players would still be scared of me and would still fold everything I would imaging but their strongest hands.

    ww
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    wendy weissman said

    I have been incorporating into my play raising or check raising field players with just draws.. even as bad as gutshots.. they seem to be working as most villains see me as tight and give me credit for something better than they have.. Since I have just started doing this more I was curios for the folks that are doing it more often how often do they do it.

    I would imagine there is a fine line to do it too much and getting a laggy image vs keeping the tight image and getting more fold equity..

    Ww
    Wendy, you adress a very interesting topic here. I used to do this quite rarely, but during the last year I have increased the frequency of doing it significantly. I believe there are two reasons why such a play has a lot of merit.

    1) First, you encounter spots where it's definitely +EV as an ISOLATED PLAY. This means you are confident that you can create enough fold equity to make this play profitable, and merely choose hand which some additional equity like backdoor draws or overcards as a backup plan.
    In order to identify such spots, you need to narrow down villain's range to mostly hands that can't stand much pressure. Usually, you can tell if this is the case based on betting patterns on previous streets, board texture, villain's behaviour, timing, etc... Therefore, the better your hand reading capabilities, the more situations you will encounter where you can consider this play.

    2) Second (and that's the more interesting part), I also do this specifically FOR IMAGE PURPOSES / FOR FUTURE PROFIT. My objective is to put pressure on my opponents in order to both (a) find out how they react to it, so I can adjust my play against them in future hands, and (b) build an aggressive image, so that I will get paid in later hands. I choose spots based on the same criteria as under 1), but
    - I might do this somewhat more liberally
    - I focus on small pots, where the cost in case of making an error is small.
    Therefore, I don't mind if one of those moves goes wrong, and the tables sees that I can do this with a goofy hand. I also don't mind if I choose a spot that is barely +EV or maybe even slightly -EV, since I don't focus on the profit from this one hand in a vaccum. Instead, I believe that this play will earn a profit at a later moment, if the opportunity will arise. This thinking is a bit risky, of course, because you might end up making fancy plays that are definitely --EV, and excuse yourself with potential future payoffs!

    IMO, the first reason mainly makes you a more profitable poker player, since you pick up a lot of uncontested pots.The second, however, not only earns you money in the short run, but it especially makes you a more dangerous and feared player. Since most low stakes players adjust poorly to pressure, they will end up making more mistakes, which you can profit from in return. Voila! Smile

    Anyways, I basically understand this as a trade-off, where I trade a couple of "investments"/ potential -EV spots in small hands for a few large payoffs, which might happen only once a session. What matters is finding a reasonable balance of not overdoing it.

    One last comment, Wendy. I think instead of asking "How many times per hour or session...", a better way of thinking is "In which spots are you...".
    Those spots are highly dependent on your oppontents' tendencies, table dynamics, etc... Moreover, even with equal conditions, they can come up five times in one hour or not even once in three days. Variance will make any quantification WRT to time or number of hands misleading or useless.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Whats

    You are exactly thinking was I was thinking. I have been playing much much tighter that I used to correctly. Problem is after a while of not catching much suddenly now I dont get much action.. or only when I am beat/crushed. I had been thinking why do I lose in nitty games?

    My conclusion was I wasnt being aggressive enough overall, so I started raising more with hands I want to play near the button.. The other was post flop.. How to increase my aggression in good spots where I am likely to get a lot of fold equity and if I do get called I am not drawing dead.

    Then if I happen to win one of these hands I should get a lot of bluff equity in that session ..

    ww
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