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Sick spot with set vs Tourney player I know well

ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
edited July 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Villain in the hand plays alot of tourneys .. he also plays cash but from a tourney perspective.. He is a self described player who plays weird lines to confuse his opponents.. I know him well and loves calling.. showdown monkey..

I have a really really good image.. I mean god like.. hitting everything since I sat down and have a stack about $2500 he has about $1500..

He raises from late middle position to 20 and I call on button with 9d9h.. his open is any pair, any SCs or high broadway cards.. two others also call.. pot is $85 bucks..

Flop comes Jc 9c 3c.. he leads for $35.. this is tiny and represents either the ace high flush draw or a flopped flush.. I raise to 100 to get value from the flush draw..

Turn 2d.. he checks I bet $120 and now he raises to $420.. he still has $1000 behind and I have him covered.




  • LVHLVH Posts: 171Member
    I don't see any option other than calling and hoping the board pairs. If it didn't I'd probably give up on the river if faced with another bet. Maybe that's lame, but it's what I'd do.

    It seems like you should be able to get some sort of flop read. Not that many people can raise, get three callers, flop the nut flush and have zero processing time. But by the river, if he's still shoveling in money, I'd almost always just believe him regardless of that. It's not hard for you to have a flush after you call this CR. Is he really trying to bluff you off a flush? Or even a set? That's pretty ambitious, especially for someone who usually just likes to get to showdown. And by "ambitious," I mean suicidal. But, a "showdown monkey" will probably pay you off at least something if he has a flush and the board pairs and might just check AcJ and stuff like that.
  • maphacksmaphacks Posts: 2,009Subscriber
    I am bad at math but I guess if you win like 400 more on the river the call is +ev? I don't really expect him to have JJ ever and probably he overplays something and slows down by the river so we get a freeshowdown or can even make a thin bet.
    I probably fold the river if we don't improve. I would just do the math for implieds.
  • EDUBEDUB Posts: 29Subscriber
    edited July 2014
    Description of villain seems contradictory. Plays weird lines and is a showdown monkey who loves calling. Showdown monkeys are not usually tricky. Bet/raise/call flop and check raise turn isn't a line call station showdown monkeys take.

    The turn bet is really small, 120 into 285 if I am following correctly. It sounds like you have history with the villain. Would this sizing from you induce spazz from him? What do you think he thinks you have in this spot?

    I would have bet bigger on turn, small sizing levels me into thinking I might have induced villain particularly if we have history. As played, I am calling if he will pay off if I hit river.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    edited July 2014
    Sorry edub not trying to be contradictory he is actually rather straightforward post flop although he thinks he isnt. As a tourney player he is more of a station but can fold to big bets..

    On the flop when he bet so small and knowing him the way I do it was either a flush draw or a made flush. I wanted to get some value but I also had to consider keeping the pot manageable in case he raised me. Although he has tried to bluff me before you usually does it on paired flops and not on turn. So my small bet on the turn was to balance these competing aspects. I am not afraid of folding the river if a club came and I felt at the time that against this guy he would only raise with a made flush.

    So when he raised now its just a math equation. How much is in the pot, how much does he have behind and how big is the bet I have to call. With him having 1000 behind I thought he would NOT be able to fold say a $500 river bet if I filled up. then the pot would be around $1500 only $500 to call. So I called..

    River 7h.. total brick and now he bets $600..

  • KiderinoKiderino Posts: 50Subscriber
    River gave you a boat
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    oops posted the turn twice.. fixed in op..
  • BradleyTBradleyT Posts: 621Subscriber, Professional
    Fold? Why are you asking us? You're the one who knows him well. There's no miracle solution here. You made a call on the turn with plans of folding unless you fill up. Why are you deviating from this plan now?

    If he has 33 or a busted flush draw with AJ, good play by him. If he showed you the bluff take note and incorporate that into your reads next time you play a hand with him.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    I didnt deviate and actually i thought this a trivial fold. He might try to bluff in a small pot but not in a big pot. I folded

    Later just before he left i asked him if he flopped the nut flush and he said no he flopped the q high flush. As i expected. He loves suited connectors. I posted the hand really to see if anyone based on my description of villain would give him a range other than a flush.

    What made me so happy was actually how he won pretty much the minimum from me. Had he played ot faster in flop i would have lost alot more. Had i sized my turn bet bigger i would have lost alot more. And this also proves that even though this guy has been playing for as long as i remember he is still a bad reg and doesnt get how his play is really percieved by a much better player. Althought he thinks he tricky he actually took a rather abc line by betting so small on flop and cr me on turn. All this does is increase my confidence even though i lost more than 500 in the hand.

    Later in the session i was able to get some back from same villain when i overflushed him and he couldnt fold to an overbet on the river. And against anothet villain i stacked him twice for 500 ea once w again an overflush and the second time aa vs kk. All of this stuff we all have been working on for so long really works. We get more value and lose less on the other hands

    Just feel at the top of my game.

    Thanks for helping guys. Really the feedback from this forum has been so key.


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