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2/5, middle full, facing river bet, 3b.

Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
2/5, 1060 effective. Villain is euro idiot.
I open black 8s utg to 20.
villain calls SB.

Flop A45sss. Flop checks through

Turn 8x. Villain leads 35 into 40. I call.

River Ax. Villain bets 80 into 110, I raise to 230, villain tanks and bet-3bs all in for 1k.



  • hustlinhustlin Posts: 362Subscriber
    hmm interesting.
    villain nutted range is A4 , A5 , A8, 44, 55.
    other value hands is some flushes he has.

    He could of A4,A5, A8 , 44,55 based on his line here.
    Your hand looks somewhat disguised. Looks like an Ax or like a slow played flush here.

    I dont mind a call here.... calling seems slightly better than folding.

  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    I don't think you can ever fold here.
    Even completely dismissing the fact that V is a "euro idiot" you getting like 1.6:1.
    You need to find 1 combo you beat for every 1.6 combos you're losing to and I think you're only losing to A5s and A4s (which is 4 combos)..I guess also 2 :s: 3 :s: possible... but beating 6 combos of 44 and 55
    That makes it an easy call.
    If you start figuring that V might overplay nut flush, that makes it a slam dunk call I think...
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    @clock umm, I am not getting 6-1. I have to call 770 for a pot of 1330. Getting less than 3-1.

    I agree I think we still should call.
  • ohsnapzbrahohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    What do you mean by euro idiot? Is he just one of those annoying euros that are stupid aggressive and bad for the game? Or is he a splashy, non-typical euro who doesn't really know how to play?

    If he is the first, and by the post it seems like he may be the first kind, I think we have to go with it. If he is an aggro euro, there is a frequency in which he'll 3bet A5s and A4s from the SB. The same frequency doesn't exist with 44 and 55. If he has 44 and 55, he also blocks us from having A5s or A4s, which would make him more comfortable on jamming. Our hand is actually kind of underrepped on this board. He could also think that we can't have A8s...is it possible for him to have A8s? If not, that's also a combo that we can take away from him.

    There are 6 combos of 44 and 55. There are just 4 combos of A5s and A4s, and we've already thought that there is a frequency in which some of those are 3bet preflop. The fact that there are 6 combos of boats that we beat alone pushes me towards a call because we simply can't find enough hands given the pot odds that will beat us to convince us to fold. This is also probably the tippy top of our range that is played this way. If we open A5s/A4s/AA, we're almost certainly cbetting the flop.

    I don't think this is the nut flush a lot of the time FWIW. There is a chance that nut flush types of hands are being 3bet preflop, and after the river raise in which we could have a boat, a jam would be considerable overplay.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    I mostly mean I have seen him play very weird and bad. Examples: he called my 3b out of the SB when he opened in late position with KK and he has bluff raised a 4 flush without the suit. Stuff like that.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    @clock umm, I am not getting 6-1. I have to call 770 for a pot of 1330. Getting less than 3-1.

    I agree I think we still should call.

    I didn't say 6:1 lol I said 1.6 : 1 :lol:
    Looks like it's actually 1.7 : 1 to be exact 1330/770 = 1.73

    So we need just 1 combo we beat for every 1.7 we lose too and I think we easy have that and that's before any spew factors are considered.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    @clock sorry mate. Right, your math is sound obviously, as is the call.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,577Subscriber
    You could raise the turn and get the 2 bets now. Look your hand looks incredibly weak and he potted it. So either he is bluffing with a redraw he isn't folding or he has a vulnerable hand like AQ or 2 pair A5, A4. What he doesnt have is the NF. Since the Ace and King are effectively out that leaves a tiny range for his FDs. QJs,QTs,JTs,J9s,T9s,97s,76s. Just A5 alone is 9 combos here.

    So we are looking at 7 flushes, 6 A5/A5 boats so that evens out. So what else does he have? A8s (2), 55 and 44 (6).

    Very easy call as your hand doesnt look like 88s full. It might look like AK no spade. Slowplayed FD yourself.

    Ok so OTR lets take out all the FDs since is he really 3bing those bad FDs? So let's assume not

    No FDs in his range since we said he wouldnt bomb the NFD OTT when you showed weakness.
    That leaves 8 boats that beat you and 6 that dont. Considering the odds you need like 3:4 to call I think.

    $1420 and $770 to call. Seems like a call to me vs euro-idiot.

    If this was OMC nit.... I could actually fold because they are never reraising back anything but the nuts.
  • SonnySonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    Rarely Rarely am I the type to say there is no possible way you can not just loose all of your money here... But... there is no possible way I can see just not loosing all your money here if you do happen to be beat... I would probably even 4 bet here if that ever was an option...
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,113Administrator, LeadPro
    edited September 2018
    IDK @Jesse_The_Suit this line seems quite nutted to me. I really doubt someone is coming back over the top with 44 55 and definitely not the king high flush, unless he is totally clueless about hand strength. Your only getting 2-1 here right?

    I would have to have a reason to call here vs most aware villains. Question is if this guy is aware.

  • Oback2Oback2 Posts: 208Subscriber
    edited September 2018
    We’re likely not checking sets or A4 or A5 on the flop very often at all here... we’re just gonna have to stack off here imo, it’s kind of a sick spot cause this is rarely ever a bluff in live poker given this line, but I’d just shrug call being at the top of our range. Villian could be a total spew tard, 44, 55, or overplaying a flush here -albeit rarely a flush imo. Having essentially a 0% calling range is just too much of a mistake that we have to call.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    Thanks all for your feedback. I did call because I basically am at the stone top of my range and this guy is an idiot. He was bluffing with an unfull Ace.
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    i dont think he thought it was bluff. NH jesse, nit.
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