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Facing jammed river with King high flush $3/5 NL

Jc1119Jc1119 Posts: 2Subscriber
edited September 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
$3/5 NL effective stack ~800
Villian utg+1: Tag methodical thinking reg.

Cutoff opens $20. Hero (button) calls KQdd, villian calls. Pot ~65

FLOP: T 9 5. DDX. Villian checks, cutoff bets 40, hero calls, villian calls. Pot ~180.

TURN : 6D. Villian leads 60, cutoff calls, hero raises to 160. Villian tanks and min 3 bets to 270?? Cutoff folds, hero tank calls. Pot ~780.

Before the river is dealt villian jams 500.
River: blank A.

Is this an easy call and hope to not be coolered or is it the nittiest fold ever? Does TAG villian have Ax with the naked ace of diamonds in his preflop calling range, overcall the flop and turn his hand Into a semi bluff? I folded and this hand is eating me alive. Thoughts?
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Comments

  • BananaStandBananaStand Posts: 1,455Troll
    edited September 2016
    You really needed to raise the flop. Everything after that is not really worth talking about since that raise would have changed the complexion of the hand entirely.

    You'd probably be hurting yourself thinking about this river decision too deeply, as you should not be in this spot in the first place.

    Raise to $140 on the flop. Don't be shy, you have 18 outs against TPTK. Even if you get 1 caller, the pot will be a little more than half the remaining stacks. If you miss, you still have plenty of equity to backup a bluff, and if you hit, you're not still so deep that it's hard to get value, or so deep that you need to worry about being over-flushed.
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    I like a flop raise with fold equity best. As played even though Villian shows a lot of strength I am calling. Need a lot of history to be certain enough to fold.
  • Chester DrafmanChester Drafman Posts: 36Subscriber
    I think it's a raise preflop.
  • ArenzanoArenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    Flatting pre isn't bad depending upon your perception of CO, but raising to isolate the CO may be the better play. OTF you have a pretty strong hand, 15 outs, your equity share is excellent and this is great spot to put pressure on the PFR and force the UTG villain to fold. The min-raise by the V is disturbing, because your hand looks like a flush and he s raising.

    OTR to call here you have to believe you're good about 40% of the time you're getting about 2.5:1.
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    More I think about it the more you could consider a puke fold. The min 3 bet on The turn and blind lead on the river is so so so strong. This kinda strength is rare to be shown with a non nut flush.
  • BlackBoxEquityBlackBoxEquity Posts: 165Subscriber
    Jc1119 wrote: »
    $3/5 NL effective stack ~800
    Villian utg+1: Tag methodical thinking reg.

    Cutoff opens $20. Hero (button) calls KQdd, villian calls. Pot ~65

    FLOP: T 9 5. DDX. Villian checks, cutoff bets 40, hero calls, villian calls. Pot ~180.

    TURN : 6D. Villian leads 60, cutoff calls, hero raises to 160. Villian tanks and min 3 bets to 270?? Cutoff folds, hero tank calls. Pot ~780.

    Before the river is dealt villian jams 500.
    River: blank A.

    Is this an easy call and hope to not be coolered or is it the nittiest fold ever? Does TAG villian have Ax with the naked ace of diamonds in his preflop calling range, overcall the flop and turn his hand Into a semi bluff? I folded and this hand is eating me alive. Thoughts?

    I think it's a tough fold on the river and great example of 5th Street Chicken. Once he 3bets turn and you call, his bluffing frequency on the river is minuscule if not 0.

    If I put myself in his shoes, I can definitely make the case to limp-call with a suited Ace pre, overcall flop getting good odds, and semi-bluff the turn with the nut flush blocker. The blind jam is not typical of a "thinking reg," but I would still give him credit and lay it down.
  • GroszGrosz Posts: 7Subscriber
    You really needed to raise the flop. Everything after that is not really worth talking about since that raise would have changed the complexion of the hand entirely.

    You'd probably be hurting yourself thinking about this river decision too deeply, as you should not be in this spot in the first place.

    Raise to $140 on the flop. Don't be shy, you have 18 outs against TPTK. Even if you get 1 caller, the pot will be a little more than half the remaining stacks. If you miss, you still have plenty of equity to backup a bluff, and if you hit, you're not still so deep that it's hard to get value, or so deep that you need to worry about being over-flushed.
    +1 to this, although its still worth talkig about
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I like a 3 bet pre but flatting is fine...

    I do sightly lean towards a flop raise but flat is obviously fine too.

    Turn I think I might go bigger, AP once we get 3 bet kinda have to call the tinny click back.

    However, OTR probably let it go. Combo wise there are actually not too many flushes out there that we beat. Just kinda 75dd, J8dd. All pretty unlikely to play it this way. I feel ok letting this go, although the shove before river comes out is a bit odd.
  • ClockClock Posts: 1,133Subscriber
    edited September 2016
    He played his hand consistently as a FD.
    Flush comes in and a good players leads into the field and then min-3bets.
    The shove before rivers comes out is to ensure 4th diamond doesn't kill his action.

    I think we can all agree it's just NEVER EVER a bluff.
    Given description of the villain I just don't see him overplaying anything (we block K and Q high flushes too) He must have the nut flush or 8 7 , so it's a tough fold on river :frown:
  • workinghardworkinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    Yah. Messed up this hand. As played im folding. If vil had a non nut flush, he'd want to make sure a counterfeiting diamond doesn't hit the river before shoving.
  • aong0744aong0744 Posts: 11Subscriber
    I had a similar situation but instead of the river blanking it became a 4 card flush.Now looking back at it, if I wasn't folding to any flush on the turn. Should I have shoved on the turn with a King high flush with a half pot bet size left after i have been 4 bet into (villain on SB bet half pot, I min raise, he reraised) ?
    I mean why call? and fold to the river? Please help.
  • KristaKrista Posts: 166Subscriber
    So villain limp called pre flop? I think the river AP is a call. He can have a set of 5s or 78s or a smaller flush. Axs is definitely in many people's limp calling range but I don't know that is his only holding. I have to say also that I saw a very good player make almost this exact play with the naked A.
  • CrushLiveDegensCrushLiveDegens Posts: 63Subscriber, Professional
    FWIW a methodical thinking player isn't dark shoving river with these stacks.
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