Take a tour. Enjoy some free sample content.

How it works

Free Video: CLP Video No. 287: Home Game Bart Reviews His Splashy At $1-$3 Deep Part 2

Free Podcast: CLP Podcast No. 54: Time Warp And Turn Value
New to Crush Live Poker?

gambling hypocrites

nofriends333nofriends333 Posts: 887Troll
edited August 2016 in Low Content Forum
Just wanted an opinion on this matter. How do you classify someone who is basically clueless when it comes to poker gambling etc ? You tell this person you just shipped a tournament or finished in the top 5 etc etc and that same person praises you for a job well done. FF a few months later and tell them you ve been on somewhat of a losing streak and they reply back" Gambling is a losing battle stay away from it" Is that considered a classic case of hypocrisy ? I only ask because what you really want to hear is " Stick with it because your dream will come true as long as you believe in yourself" Then again i expected a negative reply because i have such a strong read on this person


  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    Ok ..... Fact - 90% of people who play poker lose, maybe .1% rise through the ranks and achieve poker glory, the rest of the poker economy makes a small profit to middle class income.... So your friend technically is giving good advise to most people who play poker. There are a lot of rec poker players who contribute thousands of dollars to professional poker players and card rooms.
    For a large segment of society playing poker is not a positive thing for their net worth.
    Can you be part of the 10% of people who win at poker? Absolutely but in 2016 it requires alot of work and could be an expensive thing to master.
    There also is a chance that you won"t be able to cut it or you will be on the wrong side of variance for a longer time than u are rolled for, or your downswing is actually a poor play swing in disguise.
    Beyond that people not in poker do not typically understand variance so I personally would only discuss long term results as they are what matters most. Being focussed on how much you are up in the last year and how much your current bankroll is makes sense to discuss if you discuss anything.
    It's funny how poker is one of the only professions were its is common place for people to discuss the exact gross numbers of there earnings.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    gambling is western society is considered "bad" because most people who gamble lose and for some they become addicted and it ruins their lives.. This is taught from a very young age..

    Work is valued and earning a wage.. Its considered that you can never win at "gambling" and therefore its looked down on in society. only in the last 20 years has this been proven wrong with some able to use skill to win at gambling.

    If its poker, DFS sports etc.. there is still a very very small percentage that wins.. and the "skill" it takes to win is hard to learn and takes alot of effort. even with training some may never have the aptitude to win.

    my best friends mother knows I am a winning player and have been for years.. yet she still tells me I will lose eventually. nothing I do win change this deep seated value position she has learned

    now am I upset over this? not really.. if the rec players feel there really is no way to win then they dont feel so bad losing..because its expected.. They feel the winning players are just luckier then they are.. I know I was one of them..

    I also know the effort I have put in to make myself a winning player is too much for most ..like 99% of the players out there will NEVER put in the work to win. They will do some things to lose less.. but never never win..

  • FreeLunchFreeLunch Posts: 1,311Pro
    It would only by hypocrisy if they gambled after shaming you for it.
    Thanked by 1Thehammah
  • FreeLunchFreeLunch Posts: 1,311Pro
    edited August 2016
    How do you classify someone who is basically clueless when it comes to poker gambling etc ?

    I classify them as normal. Its unreasonable for outsiders to be expected to get it.

  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    It's not hypocrisy they just have no clue how poker works. They lump all gambling in the same basket and don't understand there are skill games. When they say good job on a win they are just congratulating your "luck". And when you lose they assume you are "gambling" too much becasue you always lose in the end with true "gambling". It sound like this person is close to you and it's upsetting so I would just avoid talking about it in the future.
  • RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
    One of the big problems with trying to explain this to people, and actually in terms of getting poker legislation passed, is that the majority of the population views games as binary - gambling or not - when its really 3 types:

    1. Games of pure skill - chess, checkers
    2. Games of pure chance - roluette
    3. Games of mix of chance and skill where it is not mathematically impossible to beat - poker, sports betting, bj if you are allowed to card count and spread your bets big enough

    The problem is 99% of the people lump 2 and 3 together because once they see a random element its "gambling".

    We need to better educate people on the difference between 2 and 3 whether it be just talking to friends and family all the way up to legislators when trying to get poker more legalized.

    Then again i have a friend with a BS in accounting and an MBA who i still cant convince that there is no mathematical way to beat craps, even though I have tried to explain to him the concept of -ev many times. Fortunately he only plays once a year for about $300....

    As a side note, the other thing that complicates this is many people have very poor math and logic skills which adds to the problem when having this discussion.
  • RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
    One more note. When i discuss my poker with friends and family who dont get it, i summarize as "i win more often than i lose, i have a certain amount of discretionary money set aside for poker, and i keep my wife fully informed of my results". That has seemed to strike a reasonable medium towards not banging my head against the wall for 30 minute trying to explain how my poker habit isnt going to drive me to be homeless.
    Thanked by 1FreeLunch
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber

    lol.. BS and MBA and he doesnt get EV as a concept..not surprising.. I have a math/econ degree and I have trouble with arithmetic..

    I would add that the concept of poker math I think is more straightforward that most might think. Issue is really doing it fast in game time --that I think is much harder.. and one I STILL work on every time I play.

    Then add trying to calculate pot odds as a percentage and most players just give up..

    I tried explaining some of this to my sister once and it just went over her head.. not because she isnt smart..but I also think that the way Math and logical thinking is (or really ISNT taught) in the US is a big hurdle for many.

  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,575Subscriber
    90%? More like 99%. The 91%-98% are pretty much break even for one reason or another or very tiny winners where if you add up all the cost they use to play poker it is break even or maybe $3 an hour which I consider a losing pretty much.

    1% make decent money. For example $25 an hour at 2/5 after all expenses

    Of that 1% only 10% of those make really good money like $50-$100 an hour @ 2/5. That takes homework and dedication along with good emotional control and about 10 other intangible factors involved if you play live.

    I know this week I made some mistakes because I was irritated and if I thought things through one of my sessions would have been +$400 instead of -$400. Minor tiny mistakes that blew up into large ones because I didn't have the discipline.

    Where was I? Oh year people who say it is gambling are completely clueless to the mathematics of the game and what is involved to win at it.
Sign In or Register to comment.