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$2/$5 nlhe Kings in SB

inflection_pointinflection_point Posts: 40Subscriber
edited June 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hero is in SB w/ kings. Over 200 bigs effective. MP player raises to $20. Older man to immediate left calls, button calls. Hero makes it $75. All three call, raiser and button give it a little thought. Old man calls without much apparent thought. Thoughts on 3-bet sizing?

Flop comes A, 8, 4 all spades. Hero does not have a spade. Hero checks. Preflop raiser seems to think this is odd and checks. Everybody else checks quickly. My thought here is that this is a truth serum board. There is no way somebody hanging on with a A won't bet and give someone with a large spade a chance to draw at it. Comments?

Turn pairs the board w/ A of clubs. Hero leads for $110. Preflop raiser quickly folds and both other players quickly call. My read here is that both have a fairly large spade draw with or without a pair. Given action thus far along with turn card reinforces my read that nobody here ever has an ace. I am now thinking of targeting an 8 with a spade in it on the river for thin value from somebody who doesn't think I have a pair.

River is a blank. Hero tanks for awhile considering bet size and leads for $160. Old man calls. Button folds with some disgust. Thoughts on sizing or anything else?


  • PBJTIMEPBJTIME Posts: 345Subscriber
    Preflop OOP with three players in, I'm 3-betting larger. I think around $100 is fine.

    Players in my pool are checking an A high monotone board often even when they hold an A. Just because it checked through does not mean no one has an A. That being said, I don't have a problem with your turn bet.

    I'm not sure what worse hands are calling your bet on the river. You might get action from TT-QQ, but I don't think your target of 8+ spade is logical. What 8+ spade calls $75 preflop? Your line definitely looks like a big pocket pair. I think a better line would be to check and evaluate based on bet size. In 3-bet pots, players tend to play more straight forward so I wouldn't be worried about being bluffed off the best hand here.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    Preflop 3-bet should be bigger. $95-$100. Flop and turn are fine, and I'm actually okay for thin value on the river, though I'm targeting 99-JJ more than 8x.
  • inflection_pointinflection_point Posts: 40Subscriber
    Okay, so from a relative hand strength perspective...what's the difference between 8-x and JJ-99? Old man did think a bit before calling and did have JJ (with a spade), but I believe I actually missed value and could have bet more on river (and maybe turn) as I later saw him hero call with AK. If my hand looks so much like a big pair, why would anything but QQ call?
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    Check turn
  • ACKACK Posts: 428Subscriber
    I think people will check a red Ah9h hand a lot more than you think on this flop.

    I don't mind a turn bet but I think a river bet it optimistic after getting two callers on the turn. When you are called I don't think you will be good more than 50% of the time on the river.
  • inflection_pointinflection_point Posts: 40Subscriber
    Stayinschool: I'm sure you realize that providing a two word response without any thought process or reasoning doesn't forward the discussion. Furthermore, it appears passive aggressive (even though this may not be your intent).

    If you can't be bothered to provide a substantive response to a post (I noticed you also did this for the tournament hand where you stated this spot is underbluffed), then don't write anything at all.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    When I do this it is almost always because someone else has explained the point above and I am just agreeing with them. Maybe I should add "Agree with...". In this post I agree with PBJTIME when he talks about a lot of people checking A high flops so I do think people still have Ax in their range and getting turn and river value is optimistic.

    In reference to the tournament hand I again felt like other people did a good job of ranging V, rather than just repeat the range I decided to just add my own, new piece of input.

    Also, sometimes I am playing online while checking the forums which sometimes results in me writing shorter responses. It is never meant to be condescending or passive aggressive.
  • inflection_pointinflection_point Posts: 40Subscriber
    Stayinschool: thank you for clarifying that. I have heard you call in enough to the call in show that I presumed this was not your intent. So PBJTIME said he doesn't have a problem with my turn bet. So you think I should be checking this down the whole way? More specifically, how would you play this hand from start to finish and why? I want to make sure I focus on playing the hands I win better just as much as I play the ones I lose better.

    On a side note, I've noticed the area I live in now the variety of players and where they make mistakes has a lot more variability than where I used to live. I had a solid grasp on almost the entire player pool where I used to live and have just started logging enough total hours since I moved to notice distinctly different types of casual players. My overall observation is that the overall level of aggression and willingness to continue on with little or no equity or "float" is greater. I am not giving these players credit for being more sophisticated as the aggression doesn't generally line up with solid reasoning. When they do "float" it is to hit their hand, not to bluff a scare card on a later street.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I don't like a turn bet because I do think there is still plenty of Ax in peoples ranges. I think it is ok but I would prefer a check and a river value bet. Aside from that hands seems good, although 3 bet bigger is another comment I agree with.

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