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The Grind Poker Podcast No.6: Improving Away From The Table And Devoting Attention

CLP_CraigCLP_Craig Posts: 784Administrator
Host Rob Farha shares some tips to how he improves away from the table and the importance of paying attention during your sessions.

Episode post at 11AM PT.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/improving-away-from-the-table-and-devoting-attention
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Comments

  • GonzoPokerGonzoPoker Posts: 38Subscriber
    Hey Rob good episode I had a couple of questions have you ever read any books non-poker related that helped your poker game ie psychology or mathematics or any good books in general . My other question was you mentioned poker snowy is the software easy to use Thanks again Rob.
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    In terms of limping with small PP's I think in most live games open limping small PP and SC's is the best play. However, if isolated by a fish you can still call but think these hands are a pretty easy limp/fold against any decent, observant player.

  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    GonzoPoker wrote: »
    Hey Rob good episode I had a couple of questions have you ever read any books non-poker related that helped your poker game ie psychology or mathematics or any good books in general . My other question was you mentioned poker snowy is the software easy to use Thanks again Rob.

    I've actually never read a poker book. All my learning has been done on the internet, books are for old people, yo :)

    I don't read a lot of books, only read a few a year on stuff that wouldn't help with anyone's poker game.

    I've also personally never used Poker Snowie as they charge a monthly fee and I'm not a fan of that. I used that as my example because I consistently hear the best reviews of that one, although it is pretty expensive imo. I've used Cardrunners EV before as something past poker stove. Stove is all you need for my suggestion though, at least to start.

    I'm sure its easy to use.

    My example is just to get people to be AWARE of how much/little they are raising in certain spots and how combos can help define our actions in spots we don't have history with people.

    It's nice to visually see ranges on paper as opposed to just guesswork in our minds.
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    In terms of limping with small PP's I think in most live games open limping small PP and SC's is the best play. However, if isolated by a fish you can still call but think these hands are a pretty easy limp/fold against any decent, observant player.

    In Vegas (most lineups, of course) this is not the case as it will too consistently be picked off/not paid off enough.

    I'm sure in softer locales where the player pool tends to be limp happy and way too sticky post, this is a very viable strategy with these hands.
  • FredFred Posts: 137Subscriber
    edited April 2016
    Hi Rob you said about a win rate cap... In a tougher than average 1-2 as an estimate what would you say that cap would be assuming half the players play with 200bb as my games have a max buy in of 200bb which most of the better players buy in at.

    Also your opinion with 2-5
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    10-12 bb in my experience
  • FredFred Posts: 137Subscriber
    Hey Rob, So in the podcast you said you wouldn't consider getting a private coach until your win rate is capped 10-12 bb ph. Can you explain WHY this would be a good time and the reasons for getting a private coach if we're already at the top of the win rate at this level?

    Would it be to move up in stakes or are we looking to win beyond the 10-12bb ph at the current level?
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    Fred wrote: »
    Hey Rob, So in the podcast you said you wouldn't consider getting a private coach until your win rate is capped 10-12 bb ph. Can you explain WHY this would be a good time and the reasons for getting a private coach if we're already at the top of the win rate at this level?

    Would it be to move up in stakes or are we looking to win beyond the 10-12bb ph at the current level?

    Yes, this is my opinion on private poker coaching based on the price. For example, I've had people with <100hr live and very minimal online experience ask me for coaching.

    I can't in good faith charge basically a beginner the amount of money I would want to charge in order to tell someone that 93 suited is not a calling hand. Or that we shouldn't be calling half our stack to flop a set or the like.

    There are much, much better cost effective ways for someone like that to get better.

    I took my example to the extreme there, but a more realistic and applicable explanation -

    If you're winning less than near the winrate cap, I think 1on1 coaching is not the most cost effective way for you to get better.

    So let's say we're a 2bb/3bb winner (or less, a losing player, whatever) or so in our games. There's a very good chance you have leaks that are pretty easily correctable yourself by looking at forums, talking to others, CLP membership @ $30/mo etc.

    There's much more cost effective ways to get better at poker than shelling out $100+/hr to someone.

    This is not to say that a coach can't help, of course I would imagine most good coaches could. Finding someone good is pretty difficult for a live player as the snakeoil/good coach ratio is pretty high.

    I just think it's smarter from a financial perspective to invest here/forums/books rather than 1on1 coaching at a very high price.

    When you get to say 6bb+ per hour and are one of the better players in your pool, it's a little different. It's not as easy to self evaluate or to gather information that teaches you something new from a public forum.

    If you stall and feel like you aren't progressing at this winrate (or even before), this is when I think I'd consider 1on1 coaching. If you stall before you're a very big winner I think an effort increase would be better than paying a coach. This is why I felt it necessary to mention that regardless of the coach/tools available to you, ultimately it's YOU that has to study, improve and execute.

    I hope this explains what I meant.
  • FredFred Posts: 137Subscriber
    Much appreciated Rob, thanks again.
    Thanked by 1RobFarha
  • irwinbetirwinbet Posts: 408Subscriber
    You mentioned that a common measure for the amount of work we should do is 1 hour of studying for every 10 hours of play. Do you have thoughts on how that should be different for full time vs part time players? I think that guideline is good for full timers playing about 40 hours per week but I think there are a lot of us on CLP that have jobs/families etc that keep us from getting that much play in. I actually think our ratio of study to play should be higher.
    I know that when I only play once every week or two that there is a little rust & I make mistakes that I don't when I'm playing more often. That's why I feel it's important to get more time in studying so poker stays fresh in my head. What are your thoughts on this & how do others in this situation handle their poker work load? Thanks.
  • RobFarhaRobFarha Posts: 192Pro
    edited April 2016
    irwinbet wrote: »
    You mentioned that a common measure for the amount of work we should do is 1 hour of studying for every 10 hours of play. Do you have thoughts on how that should be different for full time vs part time players? I think that guideline is good for full timers playing about 40 hours per week but I think there are a lot of us on CLP that have jobs/families etc that keep us from getting that much play in. I actually think our ratio of study to play should be higher.
    I know that when I only play once every week or two that there is a little rust & I make mistakes that I don't when I'm playing more often. That's why I feel it's important to get more time in studying so poker stays fresh in my head. What are your thoughts on this & how do others in this situation handle their poker work load? Thanks.

    I think it (ratio being exactly perfect) doesn't matter all that much. In today's world it's pretty easy to digest material.

    Since I know you, (and people reading) are members here, you guys have podcasts that are coming out pretty frequently. So I would try and find some driving time to the casino, or some other dead time to just throw a podcast on.

    As I've said, I'm not a huge fan of these set in stone guidelines that people seem to want to implement as it makes the learning feel like work as opposed to something moderately enjoyable and informational. The Grind is of course incredibly enjoyable in all settings so that doesn't apply here :)

    When I take breaks from poker and have to deal with rust I usually ease myself back into gear. So for example, this year I didn't come out of the gate firing 7-10hr sessions. I started at 4, then slowly and gradually felt like playing 5, 6, 7 etc. Now I play 7 or 8 hour sessions feeling fine. If I tried doing that at the beginning I would of been suffering through fatigue. This is the reason that regardless of what I'd prefer to play, I make a point to play a lot of live cash in the weeks leading up to the main event, it's unrealistic for me to go from 0 to 12 hour days without sacrificing focus levels.

    If you are strapped for time in trying to find study hours, try an listen to podcasts while doing other things. You can also break up videos into 2 or 3 parts, finding a spare 20mins here, spare 20mins there. I'm a big fan of learning like this as I can't focus on a video for an hour or more without drifting at least a couple times.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Enjoy your pod casts. They are all good on this site but I work full time and play almost 40 hours a week so not a lot of free time. I can usually get through yours on the way to work or the casino. Great concise pod casts full of good info. I like the way you dissect a topic as it re-enforces the things I'm doing right hearing a pro say they do the same as well reminds me of the things I'm still missing. the advice on not playing so so hands that have to hit hard and get paid to be worth it was really helpful. I've been keeping close track of this recently actually adding up in a session what I waste doing this. The math doesn't lie. It's pretty easy to leak 10+ bb in an 8-10 hour session and even when it's less it could average out to 1bb and hour which is a win rate killer. It Just doesn't pay off enough unless as you mentioned it's a limp happy showdown monkey game. Thanks! Look forward to your next podcast.
    Thanked by 1RobFarha