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PaHwM low board big pot

pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
edited August 2015 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I feel like these are the kinds of hands we all can get ourselves into and struggle with. Or Maybe just me. I'm going to at least get to the flop now but feedback appreciated on all action.

$1/2 playing big, everyone over 100bb up to 200bb. Hero 150bb tight image.
UTG straddles $4
2 callers to me in HJ with A6c
I call just because it's a crazy loose table with multiway limped pots and straddle checks a lot so you can look to flop big or get out early. Ok?

Fold to button calls, BB calls and straddle pops it to $30 total. 2 callers back to me. Obviously I call it or the post is over but is that just an horrible play? I'm looking at possibly 5:1 to see a flop where people will pay with worse if I hit. Just too much gamble? Also you can steal this flop if everyone misses and you bet. I've seen people turn over K7o on the river in other hands that started like this.

Folds out to straddle so now I'm IP with 4 to the flop $129ish in the pot already.
Flop 2h 6h 5c
Straddle checks, EP checks, MP bets $30.
Hero????

Comments

  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,127Administrator, LeadPro
    This is a very weird spot. First of all you have to fold preflop. You can't call of almost 10 percent of your stack with A6s. I don't mind the overlimp but when the guy makes it $30 just fold now.

    I assume the MP1 has 200bbs? If so I'd probably raise to 80 for equity protection and value and fold to any reraise. At that point you would have only committed 110 to the hand and you can easily fold given the pot odds and your equity vs a range that would reraise. If he calls and the turn is a non heart, non straightening card u can probably just shove, but you are playing a super high variant guessing game. I suppose you could also bet 100 and take a showdown on the river. But it sucks to do that and then get shoved on OTR w only 90 bucks left.

    Bart
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    K. Not much interest so I'll cut to the chase. I appreciate the response Bart. This is a situation where the table
    Is so loose with money flying I'm talking myself into gambling with these guys because I feel I can maneuver the hands and make a big fold
    If needed but I should probably
    Just go TAG and be patient. It
    Drives me nuts when the money if
    Flying and I can't get any! Is this where you just remind yourself it's one big session and fold for an hour because cards stink and everyone is popping it PF?

    I raised flop to 70 and agree I should have folded pre so I'm on the right track.

    Folds to MP who calls rather quickly

    Turn is As and MP checks. Now I'm looking for value and bet $50. It's tiny but it's a table looking a relative money value and I want a call. MP calls
    Rather quickly again

    River is 9d and MP instantly puts out $75! Now I think I'm walking into a set. MP is middle age, quite but nice and hasn't been out of line but clearly playing for fun. I'm having a hard time believing he's just decided to call down to make a river bluff. Givin the loose
    Table he could have been drawing the whole time with a big FD and now
    Can only bluff. I think I just have to
    Pay him off if he has a set. I don't even
    Have to be right that often for it to be profitable but I shouldn't be getting myself in these spots again either!
  • iamalliniamallin Posts: 1,173Subscriber, Professional
    If you are having a hard time laying down pretty hands preflop, sometimes revising the math behind it can help you be more disciplined.

    You will flop a flush draw around 11% of the time and flop two-pair/trips/quads around 3% of the time.

    Trip aces may not be good enough in a multi-way pot with a 6 kicker - specially if all the money goes in.

    So you really only smash the flop 2-3% of the time and flop a flush draw 11% of times.

    A6s will not flop any meaningful straight draw either.

    Most of the times you will be flipping with your flush draw too if you get the money in.

    So it is mathematically incorrect to call 10% of your stack with this hand against a player that's likely to have a strong range.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Thanks for the math. That does help. Just realized what a mess that last post was on my phone. Text Gets all jumpy for some reason. Anyhow I decided he looked too nervous and was doing the whole not move at all which is sometimes a bluff as they don't want to do anything that might make you call so I called and he was bluffing. Still shouldn't have got myself in that spot. Watching LAB is helping to see people just folding for an hour and realizing it's often the norm. I talk myself into thinking I can "gamble smart" at a loose table when really I should just sit tight and double up twice in 4 hours then go home!
  • chilidogchilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Pokertime -
    How can u say you're going for value when u bet $50 OTT after betting $70 on the flop? Sounds like minimum value to me.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    chilidog wrote: »
    Pokertime -
    How can u say you're going for value when u bet $50 OTT after betting $70 on the flop? Sounds like minimum value to me.

    i agree it's tiny but the A could be a scare card for villan so I didn't want him to fold. Plus I was rasing the flop as a semi-bluff not betting. It's was one of those things where villain is looking and the value of money not how it relates to the pot size based on his small flop bet. He river bet seemed to confirm this theory.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    edited August 2015
    Once the straddle makes that big raise, you need to fold preflop. The biggest reason you are overlimping A6s is the flush-over-flush potential. The big raise likely cleared out those lower suited hands you were targeting. So bail now.

    On the flop, a raise over that weak bet is certainly in order. You likely are against a smaller overpair (77-88) or a flush draw. You can usually get that pair to fold and get value from the draws. Make it $90-$95 or so as a combo-raise.

    The turn smacks the NFD. Those small pairs are probably folding no matter what you bet, so bomb it to get value from the pair+NFD. $150 to set up a river shove.

    As played, this smells like 78. We're getting 3.5-1, but really all you have is a bluff-catcher. You aren't beating ANYTHING. 78, 99, A 9 all have you beat. You only beat bluffing missed flush draws. Fold.
  • Dab44Dab44 Posts: 411Subscriber
    Fold pre...raise flop bigger... Bet turn bigger.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    dpbuck wrote: »

    As played, this smells like 78. We're getting 3.5-1, but really all you have is a bluff-catcher. You aren't beating ANYTHING. 78, 99, A 9 all have you beat. You only beat bluffing missed flush draws. Fold.

    Agreed. I was very close to folding. The only reason I called was the live read of him not moving a muscle except to quickly look at me out of the corner of his eye and back at the board. I had read before this is often a bluff not wanting to do anything that might make you call. So I felt good about that read even though it was not great play over all. It was a night like Wendy posted where I was tying some stuff out so I appricate all the feedback.
  • dpbuckdpbuck Posts: 2,060Subscriber
    pokertime wrote: »
    dpbuck wrote: »

    As played, this smells like 78. We're getting 3.5-1, but really all you have is a bluff-catcher. You aren't beating ANYTHING. 78, 99, A 9 all have you beat. You only beat bluffing missed flush draws. Fold.

    Agreed. I was very close to folding. The only reason I called was the live read of him not moving a muscle except to quickly look at me out of the corner of his eye and back at the board. I had read before this is often a bluff not wanting to do anything that might make you call. So I felt good about that read even though it was not great play over all. It was a night like Wendy posted where I was tying some stuff out so I appricate all the feedback.

    Hero call paid off?
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    dpbuck wrote: »
    pokertime wrote: »
    dpbuck wrote: »

    As played, this smells like 78. We're getting 3.5-1, but really all you have is a bluff-catcher. You aren't beating ANYTHING. 78, 99, A 9 all have you beat. You only beat bluffing missed flush draws. Fold.

    Agreed. I was very close to folding. The only reason I called was the live read of him not moving a muscle except to quickly look at me out of the corner of his eye and back at the board. I had read before this is often a bluff not wanting to do anything that might make you call. So I felt good about that read even though it was not great play over all. It was a night like Wendy posted where I was tying some stuff out so I appricate all the feedback.

    Hero call paid off?

    Yea forgot to mention I called, he said "your good" and mucked. Lol got caught up in the discussion. He was a rec player who had never really got out of line and didn't the rest of the night. I also noticed he was pretty casual prior to that hand and the rest of the night which is why I felt good about the read when he got all quiet and shifty eyed meaning something most likely a bluff.
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