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Raised T9s, flopped top pair - getting resistance, now what?

jmcjmc Posts: 58Member
I didn't play this hand, because I'm a nit. However, the "hero" in this hand is an interesting guy.

The game is 1/2NL in new mexico at a small card room - maybe 3 or 4 tables running on a Sunday around noontime.
"Hero" is an older black guy (in his 50's), playing roughly 70% of his hands, raising perhaps 20%, and should have a very laggy image. He seems to peel a bunch postflop, but that might be because everyone is betting very small and he's getting decent pot odds a lot of the time.

UTG has ~$1000. Hero has $300. MP has about $180 for this hand.

Additional notes for MP: He's and older guy who has played several pots in the last hour, but usually doesn't go to showdown. He either bets and wins the pot uncontested or folds before the river. The only hand I'd seen MP go to showdown was one where he raised to $10 vs a limper w/ QQ, didn't cbet AKs8s vs 2 opponents, bet $15 on the turned 9, and checked back a rivered 3 - he lost to Hero's K3 (maybe 40 minutes ago?).

1 limp, and hero makes it $13 to go UTG+1 with Tc9c. MP cold-calls $13, SB calls, I fold in the BB. UTG limper calls - 4 players, $52 pot.

Flop is 5d Ts 3s:
UTG checks, hero bets $45, MP minraises to $90 ($80 left in his stack), BB and UTG fold.

In this case, hero elected to call.

Turn: offsuit Q

Hero checks and MP jams for $80. ($312 pot, $80 to call)

In this case, hero elected to call.

Rate his play on the flop and turn.
Wink

Comments

  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    I don't really understand. "hero" is some horrible laggy fish? Or the laggy fish guy is villain in the hand and hero is someone you know?

    I'm assuming you were villain, hero called and either spiked 2 pair or trips or you were bluffing spades and bricked out.

    Assuming the laggy guy is villain, why are you calling flop and then folding on future streets? He's never folding any pair or draw, so if you think your tens are good then just shove and get it in.

    Assuming the aggro guy has T9s, the hand is really impossible to evaluate because no one should ever play like that anyway, but he should still probably fold.
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    opening T9s from UTG for 7% of your stack is most probably not going to be profitable.

    The flop cbet is too large.

    Once you are minraised, you are pretty much beat. Bart talks about how this is often top pair, and you have one of the worst kickers.
    Now fold, because stack sizes are way too short to consider alternative lines in order to bluff villain of the hand.
  • Gordon806Gordon806 Posts: 59Member
    Raising his play on the flop and turn is insignificant because his pre-flop play is horrible and extremely -EV. This move would even be questionable from the button or would need perfect conditions but from utg+1 is poor.
  • Gordon806Gordon806 Posts: 59Member
    Rating...I mean...
  • jmcjmc Posts: 58Member
    Sorry for not making things a bit more clear. I've edited the original post to add additional info.

    Hero is the horrible laggy fish, and I'm not in this pot with him. I originally wrote that I was in the BB and folded pre. Effective stacks after the flop are $180, but preflop the Hero and UTG had 200BB.

    Here is a more interesting question:
    If you were me, how would you adjust your play to "hero" at this table, besides moving to be closer to his left?
  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    He's bad. There are a lot of bad players at 1/2.

    How would you adjust? Iso raise him frequently when he limps. Iso 3bet him with hands that should be ahead of his range (depending on how wide he is opening). I'm not talking about suited hands, but big card hands like AT, QJ, KT etc if he's REALLY opening any 2 suited etc. You can still setmine him if he's paying off this light. If you can get it heads up with QJ and he's calling stuff like Q8s and stacking a queen then you really don't want anyone else in the hand if they'll get out of your way.

    Then of course you don't bluff him (because he doesn't fold) and basically value bet top pair to death. If you had a hand like the nut flush draw here, I guess raise his flop bet (I'd probably make it a little more than min though). But if you had air and you were bluffing IMO it's spew. Guy isn't folding, so why try to bluff him.

    Wait until you have AT or KT or even QT here and get stacks in.
  • jmcjmc Posts: 58Member
    PokerIsFrustrating said

    He's bad. There are a lot of bad players at 1/2.

    How would you adjust? Iso raise him frequently when he limps. Iso 3bet him with hands that should be ahead of his range (depending on how wide he is opening). I'm not talking about suited hands, but big card hands like AT, QJ, KT etc if he's REALLY opening any 2 suited etc. You can still setmine him if he's paying off this light. If you can get it heads up with QJ and he's calling stuff like Q8s and stacking a queen then you really don't want anyone else in the hand if they'll get out of your way.

    Then of course you don't bluff him (because he doesn't fold) and basically value bet top pair to death. If you had a hand like the nut flush draw here, I guess raise his flop bet (I'd probably make it a little more than min though). But if you had air and you were bluffing IMO it's spew. Guy isn't folding, so why try to bluff him.

    Wait until you have AT or KT or even QT here and get stacks in.
    Here's the thing about iso-3betting at 1/2NL in new mexico - it doesn't always work as well as you'd think. Once the bad player calls the 3-bet, it's entirely possible someone else tags along as well, and you'll be playing a very bloated 3-way pot. Not the end of the world, but you have to be very aware of the fact that if you're 3-betting kinda light, you'll end up in a spot where the third guy could easily have a hand like AJ that ends up dominating your KJ.
    (example from a different day: UTG, random kinda bad player, w/ $70 stack limps. New guy makes it $12, MP calls. I 3-bet to $50 from the BB. UTG moves all-in for slightly more. New guy folds, MP calls for less, I call w/ QQ and hold vs UTG's AJ. No clue what MP had). I'll agree that 3-betting lighter may be a profitable strategy, but I feel it can easily lead to lots of headaches and some rage inducing tilt/variance that I'd prefer to avoid, unless it's somehow massively +EV.

    With a $170 stack and a pot close to $100, I'd think that jamming over hero's $45 c-bet is the only play if you think you have any fold-equity semi-bluffing w/ the NFD. Personally, I don't think one would have any fold equity vs this guy, and I'd think calling and hoping to rope some other people into the pot would be slightly better. I think if he bet a bit smaller, you might have some fold equity, but once he pots it I seriously doubt he plans on folding.
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