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is this a decent line to bluff/combo bet

PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
1/2 300 max no

Villain 1 (300) older white guy. Plays very weak tight - although he will make bad calls with big overpairs, he can actually bet fold post. Played with him several times and always thinks ppl have big hands. Bet sizing is also very transparent. I was in a pot with him where I raised aq with the queen of spades multiway. I checked a 942ss flop (bad image) turn was the 2s. Villain donked 8 into 40, I just called. River was a jack, he checked and I checked it back. He had 45 with the 5s and said if I raised turn or bet anything on the river he'd snap fold.

Villain 2 (600) monster stationy fish. On a huge rush so he is playing every hand pre and peeling fairly light pre. Very passive with big hands.

Villain 3 (300) pretty bad station who is on tilt and bluffing away his $.

Hero (300) ok image. Just got it in pre vs villain 3 for a short stack where I had aces and lost. Started session a little while ago and only raised a few times. Haven't shown bluffs. V1 remembers me from before as a solid player.

Hero limps 33 utg
V2 (Mp) limps
V3 (mp) limps
V1 (button) raises to 10
Blinds fold, limpers call

$40
Flop: 6c 7c 2d
Checks to v1, v1 bets 10, hero calls, v2 calls, v3 folds

$70
Turn: 6c 7c 2d 8s
Checks to v1, v1 bets 15, hero raises to 75?

On the flop when v1 makes a small cbet I think I has a little piece. Aces or kings bets more. Sets definately bet more. I don't know he even bets ak in position. You'd think 2 overs and a fd either bets bigger b/c its a big draw or just checks back, but I suppose its possible.

I thought about raising flop but I have 2 huge fish behind and I kind of wanted to see what they do. I could just fold, but i have a pretty good feeling I can take it away later if they fold - particularly if tilty v3 folds.

V2 could have any pair, gutshots, flush draws, or probably even 2 overs given that small bet. He is calling super light.

On the turn, when he bets this small again i Know he doesnt think he is strong. He could have an overpaid like nines through Jack's that is scared, although he might check nines b/c if his draw. He never has a set, he probably doesn't raise 78, 89, 79 or 54 so he doesn't have a straight most likely nor a pair that picked up a straight draw.

The crazy thing is he might actually call a raise if he has a flush draw and overs, and he'll never bluff river if he misses. So I can actually get better to fold and worse to call. If he calls the turn and looks sick I can bet almost any river and this guy is just going to fold most likely.

Should I be worried about v2? He could have t9 or 54 although he probably donks some % of the time. He could also have a hand like 98, although he is horrid so he might actually fold because he doesn't know what kind of equity he needs. He would never bluff the river, so if he cold calls a flush draw I actually get worse to call and don't get bluffed.

Thoughts? Is flop just a fold? Is this a bad turn card to raise? I think I can legitimately rep straights and 2 pair.

Comments

  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I don't like your line at all.
    - First, you have three opponents, which makes bluffing difficult even if they were thinking players, because somebody will wake up with a hand some of the time.
    - Second, the board is very drawy, so villains will continue with a lot of hands. Since you won't know if they have draws or made hands, you will make expensive mistakes on later streets ( not bluff them when their draws brick out or try to bluff them when they have a strong made hand).
    - Third, two of your opponents are apparently weaker players, so they will most probably fold less and call more than they should.
    - Fourth, you basically have no backdoor equity. If I decide to make a move in such a spot for some reason, I'd rather want to have KdTd or A2.
  • bobo1384bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    When I play small pocket pairs, i'm not playing them because of the value of the pair. I'm playing them to setmine. Decide preflop what kind of flops you want to continue with if you don't hit a set. Since I didn't hit my set on this flop I'd let my hand go to the cbet.

    Now, as played, on the turn I think its a fold. I think raising here is spewy against 2 flop callers and also the 8 isn't a good card to bluff raise. I think connectors from 45-9T are a huge part of peoples limp/call range and this runout hits them all very hard. people also limp-call with pocket pairs up to 99 or TT and you are behind all of them.

    Also, you are forgetting the cardinal rule: NEVER EVER BLUFF MONSTER STATIONY FISH.
  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    Maybe my post wasn't clear.

    There's only 1 flop caller not including me, and the limp/caller has not put in a single bet so far.

    Are you saying the limp/caller has likely smashed this turn and is going for a check/raise? Or are you saying I'm going to get called by the PFR?
  • bobo1384bobo1384 Posts: 145Subscriber
    According to your post their is a monster station left to act behind you on the turn.
  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    Yes, there's one. That's fair enough.

    I basically just need him to not have 89, 45, T9 or like 87/86. Those are all possible, but I felt he donks those some of the time.
  • Raise pre if you're going to continue on flops where you don't hit a set. Rest of the hand is spew. I guess at 1/2 or 1/3 I would just limp small pairs up front and almost never continue when I don't flop a set, though I don't play these levels much.
  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    Fair enough. I raised, the limper called and the river was a high club. I just gave up and he checked back 54.

    Pfr folded and said he had a pp, which I assume wasn't calling if the other guy didn't call.

    I guess everyone hates it, but any other card besides probably a 5 or 4 it works. Oh well.
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    The question is: what's your general game plan? How do you intent to make money on such a table? It doesn't really make a difference if it did work out in this specific hand or not. Trying to bluff weak stationy opponents out of multiway pots with no equity on very wet boards can't be the right way to approach the game IMHO.
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