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2/5NL Am I just bluff catching river?

El_JefecitoEl_Jefecito Posts: 119Subscriber, Professional
Hero UTG+1 $800 stack, winning image, have not got out of line
Villain MP1 $600 stack, seems call happy and has shown potential to make plays when checked to, 1st time I have played with

Hero opens 9s9c to $15
Mp1 calls
Mp2 calls
HJ calls
Btn calls
bB calls

($90) flop 8c5s5d
Hero bets $50
MP1 calls
Everyone else folds

($190) turn 8c5s5d2c
Hero bets $75
Mp1 calls

($340) river 8c5s5d2c4c
Hero checks
Villain bets $125
Hero ????

Flop bet I was trying to get value from any 8x / draws that could have connected with the flop, plan on the turn was to bet fold but my turn bet sizing was a little odd for me, i think i miscalculated pot size which is something im normally good at. When villain flats turn again i put him on a range of JJ, TT, 99, 8x, 67 combos. i would think he would come out for a raise here with 5x, or 88. River I felt like I could go either way but decided to check thinking the only thing I beat here is a bluff or 8x. With his bet sizing I only have to be good 1 out of 4 times here right? The sizing just screamed value bet to me! Somebody help me out with this hand, thanks


  • BigOwlBigOwl Posts: 80Member
    Open bigger, bet bigger on flop, bet bigger on turn. As played I guess you have to fold river. Everything got there so yeah you have a bluff catcher. I just don't know what there is left to bluff catch.
  • TyrithTyrith Posts: 353Subscriber
    I have to agree - what is he calling two streets with that doesn't beat you here? Although it's telling that the flush card on the flop is the unpaired card, so he can't have a flush draw with an 8. The only sort of flush draw he could have is some sort of a float on the flop, like AcQc. That's really call happy even by the definition of call happy, though. I also wouldn't expect someone at this level to turn an 8 into a bluff. I think this is a fold. If you're going to call here, you need to bet so that you can get called by an 8.
  • chilidogchilidog Posts: 2,427Subscriber
    Yes, u have a bluff catcher. Nobody at those levels is value betting a pair of 8s when checked to on the river. Seems like a standard fold on the river.
  • GypsydcGypsydc Posts: 21Subscriber
    To segue off of this, here is a hand from 2+2 and I'm wondering...can you ever bet/fold here despite the odds? Or is this just variance you have to deal with because you should be jamming the river?


    This is HU, $100 NL Cash

    SB: 116 BB
    Hero (BB): 134.1 BB

    SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

    Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9h Th

    SB raises to 3 BB, Hero raises to 8 BB, SB calls 5 BB

    Flop: (16 BB, 2 players) 8s 7s Jh
    Hero bets 11 BB, SB calls 11 BB

    Turn: (38 BB, 2 players) Qd
    Hero bets 25 BB, SB calls 25 BB

    River: (88 BB, 2 players) 3s
    Hero bets 43.75 BB, SB raises to 72 BB and is all-in
  • BigOwl said

    Open bigger, bet bigger on flop, bet bigger on turn. As played I guess you have to fold river. Everything got there so yeah you have a bluff catcher. I just don't know what there is left to bluff catch.
    This is partially correct. I would open $25 preflop if I was getting this much action, maybe $20. Betting bigger on the flop isn't exactly optimal, though. What are we trying to get called by? An 8, 76 (the only draw), maybe 77 or 66, or even over cards by the button. By betting larger, we are more likely to get marginal hands/draws to fold and only better to continue. OP's bet is good.

    The turn is not bad sizing, either, IMO. We are trying to get called by an 8 or 76.

    I would tend to check/fold the river. Yes, villain is described as "call happy", however, you must look at the whole hand. Villain called next to act on the flop with four players still left to act. Could he have an 8? Sometimes, but not often, IMO. It's a little less likely he has an 8 after he calls another bet on the turn, also. I would be looking at how he calls, though. Villain NEVER has an 8 when you check and he bets the river, though. 76 got there on the river, there are boats in his range, etc. There just aren't a ton of 8s that are calling next to act on the flop, calling turn and willing to call the river.
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