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The Limon Show No.50: Pappy Van Winkle 20yr

CLP_CraigCLP_Craig Posts: 788Administrator
edited December 2014 in The Limon Show podcast
Join Abe this week for his tasting notes on Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve 20 years old and talks about the the trappings of being a professional gambler and transitioning to an advantage player.

Episode posts at 12PM ET.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/pappy-van-winkle
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Comments

  • GroundhogDayGroundhogDay Posts: 287Subscriber
    edited December 2014
    "...you have to be actively inactive..."
    ~ Abraham Limon 12/28/14

    Genius!
    Thanked by 1AbeLimon
  • iLikeCaliDonksiLikeCaliDonks Posts: 932Troll
    What does it taste like Limon? "It Taste Like Victory " lmao.
    Thanked by 3AbeLimon 3aces Blixx
  • AbeLimonAbeLimon Posts: 860Member
    For those interested in employing the ILCD straddle strategy Bike 5-10plo offers unlimited straddle from any position !!!
    Thanked by 1iLikeCaliDonks
  • BradleyTBradleyT Posts: 621Subscriber, Professional
    Super solid, just like my last poop.
  • AbeLimonAbeLimon Posts: 860Member
    BradleyT wrote:
    Super solid, just like my last poop.

    Thanks?
  • ChristopherSigmanChristopherSigman Posts: 1,147Subscriber
    I thought you would give Randall Graves different advice about hopping down in stakes. I would have said that if the big game breaks and he isn't willing or able to shift his mindset to the correct strategy necessary at $2-5, then why not just leave the casino? So he only gets in a 4-hour session because the $10-25 game breaks, big deal? Just go home and chillax then, no need to find a smaller game and spew off because the stakes are too low.
  • workinghardworkinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    ^^ I think the point is that there is a deeper issue if he spews at the lower limit
  • RandalGravesRandalGraves Posts: 26Subscriber
    I thought you would give Randall Graves different advice about hopping down in stakes. I would have said that if the big game breaks and he isn't willing or able to shift his mindset to the correct strategy necessary at $2-5, then why not just leave the casino? So he only gets in a 4-hour session because the $10-25 game breaks, big deal? Just go home and chillax then, no need to find a smaller game and spew off because the stakes are too low.

    I kinda wanted limon to speak a little more on it but ILCD was feeling chatty lol. Limon if you could post a few tips in here for me I would really appreciate it.

    The thing about leaving is I feel like I'm leaving a lot of money on the table by doing that. If I'm able to fix my mindset and be able to play 2/5 correctly and I can play that for 4 hours instead of going home that's a lot more money I'll have at the end of the year. I'm 25 years old and have tons of energy to put in hours I don't want to restrict myself to only playing when the biggest games are good. Initially I tried to play 2/5 but knew I wasn't playing nearly as well as I know I could so I did start going home after the big games got bad. Like I said I wanna put more hours in since this is what I do for a living.
  • iLikeCaliDonksiLikeCaliDonks Posts: 932Troll
    Randal Im thinking it should come down to this. What will make you more money in the long run out of these two options.

    Your 2/5 hourly after the 10/25 game breaks.

    Or

    Use early breaks to work on your 10/25 game away from the table.

    Both of these options make money in the long run. But one is more +EV then the other.
  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    edited January 2015
    Abe,

    Thoughts on CLP having a CLTournaments section?


    P.S. I think this was a really good show. Cali had good contributions to the playing smaller games discussion and you had important comments on the distinction between gambling and AP mindset.
  • totsdtftotsdtf Posts: 156Subscriber
    no fucking clicking noises!! did you sequester abe in a metal box or something away from any computer equipment?
    Thanked by 1AbeLimon
  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    The thing about leaving is I feel like I'm leaving a lot of money on the table by doing that. If I'm able to fix my mindset and be able to play 2/5 correctly and I can play that for 4 hours instead of going home that's a lot more money I'll have at the end of the year. I'm 25 years old and have tons of energy to put in hours I don't want to restrict myself to only playing when the biggest games are good. Initially I tried to play 2/5 but knew I wasn't playing nearly as well as I know I could so I did start going home after the big games got bad. Like I said I wanna put more hours in since this is what I do for a living.

    I think Limon attempted at a couple points to give advice here, but it sounded (to me) like you disagreed with what he was trying to say. I think it comes down to you honestly looking at yourself in the mirror and figuring out why you spew at 2-5. If the answer is that the money is insignificant, then Limon was right that you're only playing for the attraction of the green and black chips. If you're answer is that there's just nothing to think about, so it's boring, then Limon is right that you're just not thinking about the right things. Even at 2-5, there is a lot to think about, EVEN if they aren't the same things as at 10-25. There's a qualitative difference between a 25/hr winner at 2-5 and a 50/hr winner, and an awful lot of that has to do with what each of those players is thinking about. Finally, if the answer is you just think that you're so much better than everyone, so you can play badly, then this is just a not-so-subtle form of winners tilt.


    However, I have an alternative suggestion. Even though I don't think that this is a GOOD plan, I think it is a plan that takes from Cali's idea (use extra 4 hours to study) and your desire (keep playing in smaller games without spewing to make more money). When your games break, could you join a decent 2/5 game and then listen to CLP videos/podcasts? Could you read through 2+2 or CLP strategy posts? Your inclination to spew will be dramatically lessened because your mind is occupied. Granted, this WILL lower your winrate because you will miss things by not giving the game your full attention. However, I suspect that if you beat 5-10 and 10-25, then I you can beat 2-5 while distracted. In essence, I'm suggesting sacrificing some winrate by participating in an activity that distracts you, and potentially benefits you in your bigger games.


    The reason I suggest this is that I used to have the same problem. I could beat mid stakes games, but when I played 2-5 I'd just spew, for some of the same reasons you listed. Nevertheless, I found myself in a position where I'd either be wasting 1-2 hours at a casino for the game I wanted, or play in these games. Rather than continue to play in these games, I started distracting myself. If I planned on eating at the casino, I'd do it while I was at this game. If I needed to catch up on a podcast or two, I'd do it in this game. If my friend wanted to play Chess or Words with Friends or any of those other cell phone games that distract people, I'd do it during this game.
    What happened? I got significantly tighter, significantly more straight-forward, significantly less tilted, etc. I wasn't crushing the games, but I beat them nicely, and most importantly I wasn't spewing. So, although the best option is to deal with whatever psychological factors are leading to this, IF we are confronted with spewing OR winning sub-optimal amounts because we're distracted, I'd choose the latter every time.

    -Just my two cents,
    mike
    Thanked by 1iLikeCaliDonks
  • RandalGravesRandalGraves Posts: 26Subscriber
    Awesome post. Thanks mike. Will update on how this goes for me.
    MikeG wrote:
    The thing about leaving is I feel like I'm leaving a lot of money on the table by doing that. If I'm able to fix my mindset and be able to play 2/5 correctly and I can play that for 4 hours instead of going home that's a lot more money I'll have at the end of the year. I'm 25 years old and have tons of energy to put in hours I don't want to restrict myself to only playing when the biggest games are good. Initially I tried to play 2/5 but knew I wasn't playing nearly as well as I know I could so I did start going home after the big games got bad. Like I said I wanna put more hours in since this is what I do for a living.

    I think Limon attempted at a couple points to give advice here, but it sounded (to me) like you disagreed with what he was trying to say. I think it comes down to you honestly looking at yourself in the mirror and figuring out why you spew at 2-5. If the answer is that the money is insignificant, then Limon was right that you're only playing for the attraction of the green and black chips. If you're answer is that there's just nothing to think about, so it's boring, then Limon is right that you're just not thinking about the right things. Even at 2-5, there is a lot to think about, EVEN if they aren't the same things as at 10-25. There's a qualitative difference between a 25/hr winner at 2-5 and a 50/hr winner, and an awful lot of that has to do with what each of those players is thinking about. Finally, if the answer is you just think that you're so much better than everyone, so you can play badly, then this is just a not-so-subtle form of winners tilt.


    However, I have an alternative suggestion. Even though I don't think that this is a GOOD plan, I think it is a plan that takes from Cali's idea (use extra 4 hours to study) and your desire (keep playing in smaller games without spewing to make more money). When your games break, could you join a decent 2/5 game and then listen to CLP videos/podcasts? Could you read through 2+2 or CLP strategy posts? Your inclination to spew will be dramatically lessened because your mind is occupied. Granted, this WILL lower your winrate because you will miss things by not giving the game your full attention. However, I suspect that if you beat 5-10 and 10-25, then I you can beat 2-5 while distracted. In essence, I'm suggesting sacrificing some winrate by participating in an activity that distracts you, and potentially benefits you in your bigger games.


    The reason I suggest this is that I used to have the same problem. I could beat mid stakes games, but when I played 2-5 I'd just spew, for some of the same reasons you listed. Nevertheless, I found myself in a position where I'd either be wasting 1-2 hours at a casino for the game I wanted, or play in these games. Rather than continue to play in these games, I started distracting myself. If I planned on eating at the casino, I'd do it while I was at this game. If I needed to catch up on a podcast or two, I'd do it in this game. If my friend wanted to play Chess or Words with Friends or any of those other cell phone games that distract people, I'd do it during this game.
    What happened? I got significantly tighter, significantly more straight-forward, significantly less tilted, etc. I wasn't crushing the games, but I beat them nicely, and most importantly I wasn't spewing. So, although the best option is to deal with whatever psychological factors are leading to this, IF we are confronted with spewing OR winning sub-optimal amounts because we're distracted, I'd choose the latter every time.

    -Just my two cents,
    mike

    Thanked by 1AbeLimon
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,146Administrator, LeadPro
    MikeG wrote:
    Abe,

    Thoughts on CLP having a CLTournaments section?


    P.S. I think this was a really good show. Cali had good contributions to the playing smaller games discussion and you had important comments on the distinction between gambling and AP mindset.

    We've had CLT for months!! Please tell me this is a level.

  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    edited January 2015
    Why would you think it is a level? Abe goes on a tirade (in this podcast) about how poker media have to kowtow to the donkeys who play tournaments, whether they believe it or not. He talks about how there's absolutely, positively, absolutely zero, nada, zilch, reasons to play tournaments. He even talks about the guy who hosts the CLT video (nice guy, apparently). Given that, and the fact that he works for a site that has a portion devoted to tournaments, I don't think it's particularly weird (or a level) to ask his thoughts about that.
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,146Administrator, LeadPro
    edited January 2015
    I thought u meant thoughts on us having a CLT section like we didn't have one. My misunderstanding. Abe has actually suggested to me, privately, that I should go after a certain LA area player to do some CLT videos in preparation for the WSOP.

    Bart
  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    Oh I see the confusion. Ambiguous wording on my part.

    I think it's probably a good business decision, because it attracts a different kind of player (hence larger market). I tend to agree with Limon about tournaments being a waste of time, but I'm cognizant of the fact that a lot of people disagree with that OR cognizant of the fact that even people who play cash games for a living enjoy sporadically playing tournaments.


    This isn't feedback section, but just a thought on CLT. From a business standpoint, I think CLT is in a bit of no-man-zone. In other words, if CLT didn't exist, it would make sense because CLP is specifically targeted at low-mid stakes cash games. Conversely, if it was a fully developed section, it could attract a different audience to the site OR could be something that had a fee attached to it. However, as an under-developed section (which is mostly the result of not being around for that long), it seems like the ugly step sister of the site. Granted, I don't have access to data on the site, so these are just thoughts/opinions. One could probably look at the ~1000 hits each CLT video gets and see what those users are doing. Are they coming specifically or primarily for those videos? Are they people who watch every video? Etc.

    Just some random thoughts because it came up,
    mike
  • RandalGravesRandalGraves Posts: 26Subscriber
    I would like some tourney podcasts. I don't have a vid subscription. Unless I'm dumb and can't find the tourney podcasts that already exist.
  • iLikeCaliDonksiLikeCaliDonks Posts: 932Troll
    The Problem With CLT site is low buyin tournaments are unbeatable. So its false advertising.
  • MikeGMikeG Posts: 989Subscriber
    Free rolls are bearable! But even then, opportunity cost!
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