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$1/$3 - Cbet or pot control?

mattbmattb Posts: 13Subscriber
edited December 2014 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I was looking for some thoughts on whether or not to cbet when we hit our hand as the preflop raiser.

Hand 1
I open to 12 with K Q :s: utg
Mp calls Co calls Bt calls
Pot: ~$45
Flop: Q 10 4 :s:

I bet $30. MP calls

Turn: 10


Mp is pretty Tag, co and bt are pretty standard 1/3 competition. Everyone has around $300. Is anyone ever checking this flop?

Hand 2:

I open utg to $12 w/ Q T
We see the flop 7 ways.

Flop: T 4 7

Should we ever check here?


  • Topset1610Topset1610 Posts: 280Subscriber
    Hand 1:
    No never check this flop. You can get called by worse queens and tens. Also, any FD or SD.

    Turn: I would bet around $50 and probably fold to a raise.

    Hand 2:

    I would lead 1/2 pot on the flop although I do not like that we are playing 7 handed. If you are going to get called by this many people most of the time pre do not open QT UTG and also increase your pre-flop raise sizing.
  • mattbmattb Posts: 13Subscriber
    Thanks. my next question was about opening these hands and sizing..

    It never crossed my mind to check either hand..
    A friend of mine (who plays much bigger) said he'd be checking hand 1 a lot of the time. Claiming we would have to give up on too many turns. Which maybe makes sense in a 5 10 or 10 20?

    I bet 60 on the turn .. But planning to call it off. ($270 effective)
  • Topset1610Topset1610 Posts: 280Subscriber
    Looks like your sizing is to small pre-flop since you got called by 4 players in the first hand and 7 players in the second. I wouldn't be opening QT UTG in this spot and I dont even think there is anything wrong with folding it pre.

    Idk we will see what others stay, but I think hand 1 is pretty much an auto C-Bet on the flop imo.
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,127Administrator, LeadPro
    Have you listened to the material about pot control on CLP?

    If your opponents have a low frequency of bluffing, like 99.9% of players at this level, than there is almost never a reason to pot control.

  • mattbmattb Posts: 13Subscriber
    I dont think there is any material on "pot control for the limits I play :) I agree it should not be part of the game at this level.

    I brought the hand up with a friend mainly because of my play on the turn. And the conversation went more into.. dont open this hand and dont bet the flop - which I did not agree with.

    Q T 4 :s: T

    Pot $105

    I bet $60.
    Mp makes it $130
    He has about $100 left
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    edited December 2014
    Hand 1
    Betting flop is mandatory but you might want to check that turn. Are you just bet folding auto pilot? What range are you putting your opponent on? If you check is he able to steal or is he only betting a hand? At this level it's no-fold em so auto bet-folding is lighting money on fire. There are people that will make this play with QJ putting you on AK or JJ.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Hand 2
    I don't think you necessarily need to bet more PF. You got called so much because you are UTG and it's low stakes. If that is your standard raise stick with it. Theoretically you should have to raise less UTG because people should respect UTG raises but that ain't happening at this level.
    As played bet flop. You hit a ten and their are plenty of worse hands out there for sure.
  • beauregardbeauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    in Hand 1 - if you're going to open KQ utg and you hit your hand, you should bet it on the flop. On the turn, I don't mind another bet because the board is so wet... J9, KJ and X X are all hands that will pay to see another street. If the board was Q72 rainbow, then I think you can afford a check on the flop.

    Your V's raise is basically a min-raise that in a lot of 1/3 games is the nuts. I think I'd be inclined to fold here (depending on V) - using Bart's favorite tactic of bet/fold.

    But I'd much rather you bet here because you still might have the best hand - and will only win the pot by betting. Going into a defensive shell of check/calling would have you probably lose more without ever knowing if you're good or not... or maximizing your profit. It would also give draws the correct odds to chase.

    I think KQ is like 99 and AJ utg. It's a trouble hand at a loose tables. If folks are giving you respect and folding - I open it constantly. But if I find 2+ players call my raises, I prefer a limp.

    Hand 2
    Opening QT is just looking for trouble. The fact that you got 7 callers tells you that you're opening up way too many pots from EP. Those hands are best saved for raising in HJ, CO or BTN.
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