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Preflop raise size question

PiotrDembowyPiotrDembowy Posts: 6Member
Quick question mainly for Bart,

My standard preflop raise is 4x+1 for every limper. So if I'm playing 2/5 my opening raise is to $20. I think we all agree that is the standard.

Recently, a 5/5 game has started in my casino where the sb is $5 and the bb is $5, should I continue to use the standard 4x or should i increase to 5x?

Comments

  • I do not think that you should use a standard raise size in $5-$5 at all. I open to $35 at 5-10 in most situations. But I am realizing more and more that at $5-$5 the sizing really depends on a lot of different variables which include nitty or looseness of table, position, limpers, likelihood that limpers will call, 3 bet frequency, etc etc. I have opened to as small as $10 on the button and as large as $50 over only one limper.

    BART
  • ArenzanoArenzano Posts: 1,464Subscriber
    By varying your PFR, aren't giving off a bet sizing tell? Or are you doing this with a balanced range of hands no matter where you are raising or open raising from?
  • Brudre21 said

    By varying your PFR, aren't giving off a bet sizing tell? Or are you doing this with a balanced range of hands no matter where you are raising or open raising from?
    In reality the varying of my raise sizing has nothing to do with my actual cards but those above variables. So I wouldn't think that this gives off any type of tell.

    Bart
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    Brudre21 said

    By varying your PFR, aren't giving off a bet sizing tell? Or are you doing this with a balanced range of hands no matter where you are raising or open raising from?
    Pretty much nobody at these limits pays attention to which range of hands you are raising to which sizing. It really only matters at higher limits.
  • BeardBeard Posts: 23Subscriber
    I posed this question to Bart in an email and he told me there was a similar discussion going on in the forum. My question was if the table is loose and you are going to get 3-4 callers regardless of open bet sizing, would you want to make your standard bet a little larger in this game. Reason being that they are going to have a wide calling range which I will likely be ahead of. A poker acquaintance thought I could get away with betting 12 pre in comparison to the 20 that I was betting at looser tables. He was thinking I would save money when I missed and to both of us it seemed I was getting 3-4 callers either way. I realize that position and limpers factor into the equation but I'm asking for the standard situation if it makes sense to bet less if I'm getting the same amount of callers.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber
    Boz said

    I posed this question to Bart in an email and he told me there was a similar discussion going on in the forum. My question was if the table is loose and you are going to get 3-4 callers regardless of open bet sizing, would you want to make your standard bet a little larger in this game. Reason being that they are going to have a wide calling range which I will likely be ahead of. A poker acquaintance thought I could get away with betting 12 pre in comparison to the 20 that I was betting at looser tables. He was thinking I would save money when I missed and to both of us it seemed I was getting 3-4 callers either way. I realize that position and limpers factor into the equation but I'm asking for the standard situation if it makes sense to bet less if I'm getting the same amount of callers.
    Boz

    I agree with this point to a point. I think we have to be a bit careful that if you make the pot too big in relation to someones stack they make stack off a lot lighter.. even something as bad as a gutshot strait draw.. So always keep an eye on short stacks and if they are the type to just call then I would tend to bet more normal..

    Wendy
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I would suggest that before raising, you ask yourself: What do I want to accomplish with the raise?

    1. Manipulate the number of callers.

    Let's say you hold a hand like A7s, 22, T8s, 65s, .... These types of hands do very well multiway, but less so heads up or three handed. So, raise an amount that will likely get called by multiple opponents (or maybe just limp, depending on the table dynamics).

    If, instead, you have KQo, ATo type hands, you want to thin the field in order to play against one or two opponents, so raise an amount that is likely to get called by only a few opponents.

    2. Manipulate villains' calling range

    Now, if the table dynamics are such that even large raises are called frequently, you might deviate from that strategy (and tighten up significantly).
    In contrast, if people are so tight that they will fold everything but premiums and pocket pairs, you want lower your raise size in order to make them call lighter.

    E.g. let's say everyone folds to you at the button, you have a very strong hand, and the blinds are very tight. In this situation, I'd raise to 3x in order to induce a call from a weaker hand.
    However, if the blinds are huge calling stations and totally indifferent to your raise sizes, I'd go ahead and raise much bigger, maybe even to 10x if you have seen them call with anything. Let's say they will fold the bottom 30% of their range and call with the top 70%, but are totally indifferent to your sizing, then go ahead and raise big.

    3. Disguise your hand strength

    This becomes relevant only if you identified a player who clearly pays attention and is putting you on a range of hands. Also, this is only applicable if he is (likely) going to be involved in the hand. If he has folded already, you don't have to care about deception anymore.
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