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Online Poker - Are you a Winning Reg?

wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
Does anyone make money cosistently online? I'm back to the thought that some of these sites are rigged. I play on Merge - Specifically Sportsbook.com. I mostly play live but started up playing online again last week. I turned $20 into $800 in about a week playing tourneys than cash. I started out real well in cash and made like $150 in a couple hours each night playing 25c-50c blinds. I LOST IT ALL IN 5 DAYS at the same stakes and only played about 3 hours a day. In these 3 days I can't begin to tell you how many times I got 2-5 outed and had AA vs KK or QQ preflop where it went in and I lost (6 max tables). I only play 4 tables at a time. I dont want to hear the same ol BS about how its not rigged blah blah because I'm not winning from people who can't win either on these rigged sites. I'd like to hear from people who actually make a living and their thoughts on merge and be honest. Granted some of my playing wasn't the best esp if I was tilting which I was but cmon, I've had more getting 1-5 outed in the last 3 days than my whole poker career of years of playing. It seems as soon as you build up a roll online things go south and I dont believe its because my playing got bad. How can someone who wins regularly at 2-5 live lose $800 in a few days playing 50 cent blinds? I'm not the worlds greatest player but not aweful to explain that loss in that time at those stakes. I'm going to try other sites next to see if I see a difference but it seems this site went to sht once poker stars and full tilt got the boot. I can't wait until this sht is regulated and legit.

Comments

  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    If you think the site is rigged, why do you play there?

    I don't play on Merge and never have, so I guess I can't comment, but dude - do you want to know how many times I heard stuff like "I'd like to hear from people who actually make a living and their thoughts on merge and be honest. Granted some of my playing wasn't the best esp if I was tilting which I was but cmon, I've had more getting 1-5 outed in the last 3 days than my whole poker career of years of playing."

    You're saying "ok I played bad and made a ton of mistakes, but I should be winning and I don't understand it!" No one should expect to win automatically at poker. We have to earn it. We have to play well. We have to run through long periods of negative variance.

    "How can someone who wins regularly at 2-5 live lose $800 in a few days playing 50 cent blinds? "

    Live 1/2 and 2/5 players are worse than micro online players, at least that's my Stars/FTP experience. You're also playing 4 tables, which means you're essentially playing 2/4 live. You're playing 6max instead of 9max live, so you're in more spots and have more variance.

    I've lost >$2k in 1 day 1 tabling 2/5 live, so I think it's very, very, very likely that a winning 2/5 player could lose $800 over several days 4 tabling 6max .5/$1 online.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I agree with all of PokerisFrustrating's comments, especially the ones re: "I played bad and lost, site = rigged"

    There is no incentive for Merge (or FTP, PS, whereever) to "rig" their sites. What point would there be? Everyone is still paying rake, so the site makes money either way.

    I'd also like to add that a) because it's 6-max and not full ring, b) because you are online and not live, and c) because you are playing 4 tables at once, that you are probably seeing at least 10x the hands/hour that you would in a live environment, so the amount of times that dumb shit happens is going to be condensed.
  • Chicago IronChicago Iron Posts: 68Subscriber
    fuck no.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    Whenever I hear someone say things like this, I think that they need to have good answers to these sorts of questions:

    1. If online poker is rigged and you are constantly getting sucked out on unfairly, then who benefits?
    • If it is other players at the table, then how did they get picked to be lucky and you get picked to be unlucky?
    • If it is site ("Bigger pots means more rake for us! *Evil villain cackle*"), then wouldn't the bad luck be spread across all players evenly?

    2. If you think good hands are losing more than their fair share, then how are you compensating in your own play?
    • If premium hands are actually underdogs to win on this site, then you must be playing napkins against players who are putting a lot of money in pre-flop because the rigged-ness of the site means that if they have a good hand then they will get a bad beat right?
    • Are you folding your good hands pre-flop since they are going to lose?

    Also:
    • As has already been said, live casino players at 1/2 and 2/5 are *significantly* worse than small stakes online players.
    • You are playing 6-handed instead of 9 handed. The swings will be bigger even if you were playing the same number of hands per hour.
  • regfishregfish Posts: 34Member
    When you play against better players your variance goes up. You lost 16 buyins which is alot but still can be expected in those games. Yes you prob. ran bad. But some of those buyins were prob. the result of tilt. At a casino it's much easier to lose a buyin and quit because your playing with real money and real people. Online your at your house and you just have to click a button to rebuy. Much easier to continue to play even when your not at your best.
  • wildncrazyguywildncrazyguy Posts: 422Subscriber
    WOW I got the same useless nonsense from people who cant win online and dont. I said I made a COUPLE mistakes over MANY hours. That happens to everyone and I still make money live iwth a couple mistakes. You all are saying the same ol bs- Why do you play if its rigged? Yeah Yeah every who loses say its rigged Blab Blab. All from people who can't make money online playing merge. My question was to someone who actually MAKES money on there and if so speak up. My guess is I wont get that. Go figure hmmmm. I think sites like merge have every reason to cheat. Its been proven on sites that some dont use Random number generators. Enough from the ignorant people. I want to hear if there are actual winning regs on merge. I'm wondering if thats so because all I hear is the same ol nonsense from people who dont win online either or don't even play online so they shouldnt even comment.
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I was a very small winner/break even player on Stars when it was legal to play there. I didn't multi-table and I basically played when it wasn't convenient to get to a live venue. While some of the responders were a bit flippant in their responses (myself included), the points that were raised were legitimate.

    1. You are seeing 10x the hands per hour multi-tabling online that you would see live. You are therefore going to get 1-2 outed 10x as much in the same time frame playing on line.
    2. A 0.25/0.50 game online is about the equivalent of a 2/5 game live. Have you ever lost less than a full buy in when playing one table in a live environment? Would you think it would be possible to lose that same amount spread over 4 tables playing live?
    3. 6-max versus FR may seem like a subtle difference, but the varaiance that you are dealing with increases significantly. Even the best online players in the world have gone through multiple buy-in downswings over longer periods than 15 hours (which is the time frame you said you lost it in).
    4. Statements like "sites like merge have every reason to cheat" are useless without some sort of rationale. Cui Bono? Additionally, your statement re: sites not using random number generators doesn't prove the point. The players that you are playing against would have to know the sequence to be able to exploit that fact.

    I guess I am having trouble figuring out what your point is, and maybe we're all just being trolled, but I'm too logical to let this one die, especially after you've insulted everyone who took the time to respond to your post by calling them ignorant. Is your point that the site exists to bring in suckers like yourself to play against a stable of employees who have knowledge of what cards are coming next? If so, I don't know what to tell other than, don't play there.

    If the point of your post is to gain sympathy for dropping a few buy-ins over the course of 4,500 or so hands, I'm not sure that you'll get any from people here, as I would imagine that there are more than a few of us who have had that same experience, both live and on-line (myself included).

    The advice that I have for you if you are truly looking to get better at on-line play is to find some books and training sites that focus more on on-line play rather than live. Slowhabit has a couple of really good ones - "The Poker Blueprint" and "Exploiting Regulars" are two that come to mind.
  • OminousCowOminousCow Posts: 702Subscriber
    I don't play online anymore after Black Friday, but when I did, I was a solid winner at higher stakes than those you are talking about. I also totally agree with what Wackabrew said.

    You should also realize that whether or not someone can win themselves does not have any effect on the validity of their argument. Ad hominem attacks just make you look silly. You also totally failed to address any points that I raised; running around screaming nonsense does not support your case in the slightest.

    Flaws in random number generators (which have been exposed for sites in the past) do not mean that suddenly the site will conspire against you. It means that there can be obvious security holes that can be exploited by attackers. However, I have not heard of any such flaws in Merge (feel free to provide evidence that such flaws exist), and even if they did, you are now saying that such attackers are targeting you specifically. Did the people you lose to win every hand they played? Or did they just beat you?

    The flavor of your posts really makes it seem like you are desperately looking for some sort of excuse that could explain how you lost. Your lack of ability to come up with any other explanation than "I was cheated" indicates you should study the details of the game more and spend less time coming up with conspiracy theories about how a shadowy cabal is targeting you in small stakes online games.
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    DanVanDyke said

    WOW I got the same useless nonsense from people who cant win online and dont. I said I made a COUPLE mistakes over MANY hours. That happens to everyone and I still make money live iwth a couple mistakes. You all are saying the same ol bs- Why do you play if its rigged? Yeah Yeah every who loses say its rigged Blab Blab. All from people who can't make money online playing merge. My question was to someone who actually MAKES money on there and if so speak up. My guess is I wont get that. Go figure hmmmm. I think sites like merge have every reason to cheat. Its been proven on sites that some dont use Random number generators. Enough from the ignorant people. I want to hear if there are actual winning regs on merge. I'm wondering if thats so because all I hear is the same ol nonsense from people who dont win online either or don't even play online so they shouldnt even comment.
    Dan, why do you ask a question on a public forum if you don't listen to the responses? Several people here, who are clearly smart and have put tons of hours into poker themselves, are spending their time to give you their honest opinion and some straightforward feedback to your question. But obviously, you are not willing to put thought into what they have to say. That's a pity, as getting responses like yours will make them less likely to give out useful information in the future.

    Ominous nailed it, so please think about what he wrote. If that's not what you wanted to hear, you might have to ask somewhere else for better responses.
  • PokerIsFrustratingPokerIsFrustrating Posts: 657Member
    On the off chance this isn't a level - online variance is incredibly high. 16 buyins is not necessarily crazy.

    I was "pro shortstacking" for a while in the 20bb cap games on Stars (embarassing I know but I was going for SNE). I had a stretch where I was 100 buyins below EV (20bb buyins) which is basically 20 full 100bb buyins -EV.

    It happens. The sites aren't rigged. It's the same reason people think that if roulette comes up red 9 times in a row it can't possibly happen again, or it's definitely due to happen again.

    I went through a period like you as well OP. I basically raged at everyone because I wasn't that losing player who said online poker was rigged, but seriously how could this ridiculous stuff happen to me. After a while, I realized that I run about the same as everyone else and I needed to improve my play to win.
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