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Is this an appropriate river bluff raise spot against aggro idiot?

UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
Villain is a loose and aggro idiot who doesn't know why he bets when he does, cbets absurdly huge both with made hands and as pure bluffs, floats in and out of position with no equity for only the opportunity to bluff later, and can't fold when he has any made hand

He tends not to believe me when I bet (what else is new?) so for that reason I stopped bluffing him, but this time I felt like he had complete air or a busted draw

2/5 ~650 effective
Villain raises to 20 UTG+1 which he does with approximately a top 35% range
Tight straightforward guy calls in MP
I call OTB with 6d5d

Flop $67 pot
Kd 7h 4h

Villain checks (which is kind of weird)
Guy in MP checks
I decide to take a stab and bet $35 since I've never seen this villain C/R, and the tight guy would have bet if he had anything
Villain snap calls
MP folds

$137 to turn
Turn is a 9c
Villain instantly bets 100 without thinking much
I call

$327 to river
River is a 9s so I brick out
Villain instantly says "200" again without thinking or considering the river

Obviously, I have a busted draw, but I really don't think he has anything either with the pace that he's mindlessly betting and the line that he took. Does this look like a good spot to shove all-in on him as a bluff, or is that unnecessary high variance?


  • I do not think that this is a good place to bluff. He could have something that he accidentally calls us with that is good--something other than top pair. Listen to this week's show "reverse pot odds". Also I dont like your flat preflop if the tendencies about the villain you described are correct. This is really a 3 bet or fold as it is going to be extremely hard for you to make a big hand vs big hand when he is opening so wide.

  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    I agree that pre-flop is questionable against a loose player. This guy also almost never folds to 3-bets, so 3-bet wouldn't be that great of an idea either. I wouldn't always flat with this kind of hand, but this time I had been folding for a while, I had the button, so I just decided to see a flop

    But I can't figure out what kind of legitimate hand somebody would play this way, especially considering the speed at which he was betting the turn and river.
  • ThehammahThehammah Posts: 7,090Subscriber

    I almost don't think it matters what they have.. The board is paired and with your and this guys image its just not a great spot to try and bluff. I love bluffing rivers when a 4 card flush comes in and its checked to me .. that looks like I could have been on the flush draw.. or a 4 card straight..those situations..

    With your bet-check-raise line I just don't think you are repping anything other than a fullhouse or a bluff and bad players are much more likely to call then good players..

    Your play would work on me.. but I am a nit..lol..but seriously.. a good thinking player might fold but a bad player generally wont..pick a better spot..

  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I don't like the flatcall pre, due to the stack sizes and villain's tendencies. You are not deep enough to get paid huge if you happen to make a strong hand once in a while. Moreover, the value of suited connectors comes mainly from being able to take away the pot at a later street, which you can't if you have a bluffy image and/or villain is a station. So, fold pre!
    Calling leads to more expensive mistakes post-flop, because with this type of hand you often flop a little something, which is too much to fold but too little to happyly get money into the pot, just like in this very example.

    It's true that he's probably not very strong, but your line doesn't make much sense either. What are you representing, other than Ah9h type hands? He'll probably call you down with JJ, TT, 88 type hands.
  • UntreatableFPSUntreatableFPS Posts: 1,004Subscriber
    Ok, I need to stop doing this...
    One of my plans to start out the new year was to avoid unnecessary marginal super high variance spots

    And then,
    I decided he had a busted draw and shipped a stack of greens in
    I thought it didn't matter what I was representing because I was getting the last bet in, and he had nothing. I guess I could have had a flopped set, K9/97, or a draw on the flop that happened to have a 9 that I would have played for value this way

    And he tanks and tanks and says that he was bluffing but he had a 4
    And the grumpy old guy at the table calls the clock on him
    And he looked like he wanted to call, but his time expired
  • Obviously it ended out working out for you. But I see him calling here sometimes with A4 given his pot odds--which is the problem that I have with the play.

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