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flop trips with big action: what's your play (how's my play?)

RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
All

1-2 game at Parx.

Some setup: Hero and V2 have effective stacks of ~450; V1 has stack of about $175?

Pre-flop: 6 of us in for $10. Hero is in the cutoff with 8s8c; hero had just called the $2, V1 button makes it $10, everyone in for 2 calls the $10. So ~$60 in the pot (less rake plus blinds).

Flop: 7 8 J with 2 diamonds.

Checks around to player 2 to my right who makes it $45. We'll call him V2.

Action to me. What's your play, raise or call?

My thinking: I'm dead to JJ, behind 9T, and I'm crushing everything else. I rule out JJ, I think V2 makes a pre-flop raise with it. I also feel that V1 who is next to act behind me missed this flop, and might make a move with his preflop raising range of QQ+, AK. I don't believe he has JJ either; no one at Parx 1-2 makes it $10 with JJ, they always make it $22 or something stupid.

So I call, deciding to build a big pot.

V1 raises it to $100 to go; V2 things about it for one second and goes all in.

Action to me: what's your play, call or fold?

There is now about $650-$700 in the pot with me needing to call the rest of my ~$420 stack. I'm not great with ranges, but I am pretty good with feel. And V1 feels like a big pair, and V2 feels like he's on draw and not sitting their with 9T (REALLY big bets at Parx on the flop are usually indictative of draws). I think about it for about 5 seconds and call.

V1 is NOT happy, thinks about it for about 20 seconds, folds.

I'll withhold the results for a bit; curious how others would have played the flop.

Roger

Comments

  • shmedshmed Posts: 321Subscriber
    Any specific reads on any of the villains?

    I am raising the flop to $150. I agree that you are ahead almost all of the time, but you need to get value / charge FDs and SDs. Many cards could come on the turn to shutdown the action.

    As played, the turn is pretty read dependent on V2. I think V1 is sort of irrelevant given how short his stack is (I'm always getting it in against him with this hand).

    However, V2's play is polarizingly strong - 3 bet AI on the flop. I think his range now definitely includes 9T (suited or unsuited), sets (although I agree that JJ is unlikely), and nut FDs / pair + FDs / straight and flush combo draws. Also many players would check 9T to the PF raiser, although I could see extra reason for him not do that in this case given it's six handed and the PFR is last to act (and esp if he doesn't have the flush redraw). Also if V2 is an older player or nit, would not be surprised to see 9T in this spot.

    However, against an unknown, I'm calling, I think there are many more combinations of draws in his range.
  • EselspielEselspiel Posts: 115Subscriber
    shmed said

    Any specific reads on any of the villains?

    I am raising the flop to $150. I agree that you are ahead almost all of the time, but you need to get value / charge FDs and SDs. Many cards could come on the turn to shutdown the action.

    As played, the turn is pretty read dependent on V2. I think V1 is sort of irrelevant given how short his stack is (I'm always getting it in against him with this hand).

    However, V2's play is polarizingly strong - 3 bet AI on the flop. I think his range now definitely includes 9T (suited or unsuited), sets (although I agree that JJ is unlikely), and nut FDs / pair + FDs / straight and flush combo draws. Also many players would check 9T to the PF raiser, although I could see extra reason for him not do that in this case given it's six handed and the PFR is last to act (and esp if he doesn't have the flush redraw). Also if V2 is an older player or nit, would not be surprised to see 9T in this spot.

    However, against an unknown, I'm calling, I think there are many more combinations of draws in his range.
    +1

    Raise the flop; get it in on the turn. Less likely because of your holding, but also in his shoving range, are two pair hands.
  • RogerHardyRogerHardy Posts: 794Subscriber
    Good points about raising it on the flop as opposed to slow playing. Thanks!
  • WackabrewWackabrew Posts: 400Subscriber
    I echo the comment re: raising on the flop, especially with this wet of a board. That said, I am never folding middle set at a 1/2 game at Parx (I play there too) unless someone exposes their cards to reveal JJ for top set. Against a range of JJ, 77, 109s and 65s, you are about 45%. This is a call all day for me.
  • SteveGallantSteveGallant Posts: 5Subscriber
    I probably would raise flop also since you are 6 way, want to get some of the draws behind you out also and not odds to call the 45. V2's hand looks like could be nut flush draw with possible pair or 2 pair. I don't know if you can fold to a 4bet jam. Do you have any reads of villian has he been playing many pots? See him get it in anywhere else?
  • Fish FryerFish Fryer Posts: 161Member
    RogerHardy said

    All

    1-2 game at Parx.

    Some setup: Hero and V2 have effective stacks of ~450; V1 has stack of about $175?

    Pre-flop: 6 of us in for $10. Hero is in the cutoff with 8s8c; hero had just called the $2, V1 button makes it $10, everyone in for 2 calls the $10. So ~$60 in the pot (less rake plus blinds).

    Flop: 7 8 J with 2 diamonds.

    Checks around to player 2 to my right who makes it $45. We'll call him V2.

    Action to me. What's your play, raise or call?

    My thinking: I'm dead to JJ, behind 9T, and I'm crushing everything else. I rule out JJ, I think V2 makes a pre-flop raise with it. I also feel that V1 who is next to act behind me missed this flop, and might make a move with his preflop raising range of QQ+, AK. I don't believe he has JJ either; no one at Parx 1-2 makes it $10 with JJ, they always make it $22 or something stupid.

    So I call, deciding to build a big pot.

    V1 raises it to $100 to go; V2 things about it for one second and goes all in.

    Action to me: what's your play, call or fold?

    There is now about $650-$700 in the pot with me needing to call the rest of my ~$420 stack. I'm not great with ranges, but I am pretty good with feel. And V1 feels like a big pair, and V2 feels like he's on draw and not sitting their with 9T (REALLY big bets at Parx on the flop are usually indictative of draws). I think about it for about 5 seconds and call.

    V1 is NOT happy, thinks about it for about 20 seconds, folds.

    I'll withhold the results for a bit; curious how others would have played the flop.

    Roger
    Def. need to raise the flop on such a wet board. As played, I don't know that I could do anything other than call here. Your hand def. does not look like a set to your opponents with the flop call.
  • LarryLidoLarryLido Posts: 52Member
    PF this is a raise for me all day. Your ahead of these players limping range and have excellent position. Something like 4xBB+1BB per limper is my standard. This raise is not only for value, but also for balancing out my big hands (I know people like to say balancing is not necessary at 1-2nl, but even a 1/2nl drooler will notice when you only raise PF with AK and JJ+). By raising enough to get it down to 1 or 2 players you will find Cbetting very profitable. Taking the passive set mining route is profitable as well, but not my preferred line.

    OTF there is about $100 in the pot post rake and its $45 to you. Raise enough to make the draws (not the combo draw though) unprofitable. $130-$145 sounds about right to me, though this sizing is player dependent. I'd also barrel any turn card without better reads on Villains tendencies.
  • whatsyourplay?whatsyourplay? Posts: 752Member
    I'd say if there's a big enough chance that V1 will raise the flop behind you, I definitely prefer a call on the flop. Then, V2 will either overcall or backraise, and you can ship.
    Other than that, V1 is basically irrelevant (especially on the turn) given his stack size and the amount of dead money in the pot.

    Given your specific reads (V1 has no JJ and T9 is unlikely after his flop 3bet), it's an easy decision then.
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