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SO #63 The Reality of Combinations

Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,152Administrator, LeadPro
edited December 2014 in Crush Live Poker podcast
This week Bart discusses combination work and how it relates to hand reading in the real world. In order to properly weight combinations you must figure out an approximate percentage of the time your opponent would take a specific line with a certain hand.

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/podcasts/reality-of-combinations

Comments

  • fogodchaofogodchao Posts: 104Subscriber
    I've been out of the country for the holidays, so I just today had a chance to listen to the podcast. I'll give it one more listen and post my thoughts here afterwards.

    Really interesting and important information in the podcast, and something that I need to personally work into my game as I move up limits and as I work towards a higher wr.

    - Fogo
  • LarryLidoLarryLido Posts: 52Member
  • VernonJonesVernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
    Bart said

    Hey guys,

    Today's episode is up now. Most of the show dealt with this hand: http://www.seatopenpoker.net/forum/strategy-discussion/flopped-boat-facing-river-raise/#p15326

    Bart
  • PsujohnPsujohn Posts: 1Member
    I wnder if you could elaborate on what to play in a low stakes game with large open raises. I get the 10/20 (15/25) rule but what does that leave us to play? Big pairs and AK don't come around that often and playing 10 handed you dont even get many chances to open a KQ or QJs from LP.

    If you do make it to MD Live I'd love to hear a hands from a 1/2 or 2/5 cash game episode
  • David ChanDavid Chan Posts: 1,208Pro
    I agree 100% with Bart's analysis of why raising smaller IN POSITION and raising bigger OUT OF POSITION is a much better preflop strategy than the Ed Miller strategy of raising smaller OUT OF POSITION and raising bigger IN POSITION.
  • David ChanDavid Chan Posts: 1,208Pro
    To further discuss the merits of preflop raise sizing strategy, I would generally recommend a strategy like this: raising 4x in EP with our entire EP raising range, raising 3.5x MP with our entire MP raising range, and raising 3x in late position with our entire LP raising range.

    Some people ask me however this question: "David, why can't I raise bigger with my big hands like AK/QQ+? I think it is stupid to raise the same amount with KK as I raise with 87s."

    This is how I typically respond: "WE CAN STILL RAISE BIGGER ON AVERAGE with our big hands anyway by 4xing EP, 3.5xing MP, and 3xing LP."

    They respond: "How?"

    I say: "My preflop raise sizing is dictated solely by bigger in earlier positions and smaller in later positions. My EP raising range in first position is always stronger than my LP raising range, and anyone can figure that out. By raising 4x in EP, and 3x in LP, I am AUTOMATICALLY making big raises with strong hands and small raises with weak hands on AVERAGE."
  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,152Administrator, LeadPro
    Psujohn said

    I wnder if you could elaborate on what to play in a low stakes game with large open raises. I get the 10/20 (15/25) rule but what does that leave us to play? Big pairs and AK don't come around that often and playing 10 handed you dont even get many chances to open a KQ or QJs from LP.

    If you do make it to MD Live I'd love to hear a hands from a 1/2 or 2/5 cash game episode
    Unfortunately PSU, it doesn't take a rocket science to play 100bb poker with large open sizes ten handed. It is going to be less about poker skill and more about patience, mental game and hand selection preflop. Often times players will think that their superior skill post flop can widen their range pre and although that can be the case in some select situations, in general moving from fundamentally sound play at the lower levels is spewy.

    Bart
  • VernonJonesVernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
    Bart
    I would love if we could discuss this in motte detail on a future podcast especially since this is the game most of us are forced to play. For example if you are playing 2/5 with $500 and someone raises to $35 and there are 3 callers and you have 44 on the button should you call? How about jt suited? Should I be 3 betting lighter in these games? Should you now 3 bet more often with ak or JJ or even 1010 on the button with 100 bb or less and a $25 raise and a few callers? How about c betting and double barreling does this change in a game like this? How about bet sizes? You like to bet bigger on the flop but with 100 bb and inflated pots due to raise sizes does the philosophy chane some?

    Basically what are adjustments do we need to make that differs or is in addition to what you talk about on the podcasts and clps?
    Bart said

    Psujohn said

    I wnder if you could elaborate on what to play in a low stakes game with large open raises. I get the 10/20 (15/25) rule but what does that leave us to play? Big pairs and AK don't come around that often and playing 10 handed you dont even get many chances to open a KQ or QJs from LP.

    If you do make it to MD Live I'd love to hear a hands from a 1/2 or 2/5 cash game episode
    Unfortunately PSU, it doesn't take a rocket science to play 100bb poker with large open sizes ten handed. It is going to be less about poker skill and more about patience, mental game and hand selection preflop. Often times players will think that their superior skill post flop can widen their range pre and although that can be the case in some select situations, in general moving from fundamentally sound play at the lower levels is spewy.

    Bart
  • VernonJonesVernonJones Posts: 179Subscriber
    Thanks David
    In my game 3 bb is considered a pot sweetener and you may get 6-7 callers. Maybe with AA or kk on the button first to act or with small pairs to build a pot Ill make it 3 bb but otherwise I never go below 4 bb. What about with limpers how do you adjust? How about in the blinds with limpers will you go even bigger?
    David Chan said

    To further discuss the merits of preflop raise sizing strategy, I would generally recommend a strategy like this: raising 4x in EP with our entire EP raising range, raising 3.5x MP with our entire MP raising range, and raising 3x in late position with our entire LP raising range.

    Some people ask me however this question: "David, why can't I raise bigger with my big hands like AK/QQ+? I think it is stupid to raise the same amount with KK as I raise with 87s."

    This is how I typically respond: "WE CAN STILL RAISE BIGGER ON AVERAGE with our big hands anyway by 4xing EP, 3.5xing MP, and 3xing LP."

    They respond: "How?"

    I say: "My preflop raise sizing is dictated solely by bigger in earlier positions and smaller in later positions. My EP raising range in first position is always stronger than my LP raising range, and anyone can figure that out. By raising 4x in EP, and 3x in LP, I am AUTOMATICALLY making big raises with strong hands and small raises with weak hands on AVERAGE."
  • David ChanDavid Chan Posts: 1,208Pro
    If your game is loose, then just make it 5x in EP and 4x in LP. Usually, I add 1x per limper to my iso-raise sizing. I also raise as much as or even bigger than my EP raise sizing when I raise from the blinds.
  • DisplayNameDisplayName Posts: 3Member
    Actually, it's a pretty interesting debate. It seems like it centers around two philosophies. Argument 1: When we have an advantage because our CARDS are better, let’s play a bigger pot. Argument 2: When we have an advantage because our POSITION is better, let’s play a bigger pot.

    Not to be a contrary, but I kind of like Miller's argument because we are only taking more risk when we have more information ( because of position ). On the other hand, I have to say, I do think Bart's strategy might be better in shorter stack games. In shorter stack games, risk ( i.e. putting your stack at risk ) is obviously less of a factor.
  • 442xx442xx Posts: 14Subscriber
    VernonJones said

    Bart
    I would love if we could discuss this in motte detail on a future podcast especially since this is the game most of us are forced to play. For example if you are playing 2/5 with $500 and someone raises to $35 and there are 3 callers and you have 44 on the button should you call? How about jt suited? Should I be 3 betting lighter in these games? Should you now 3 bet more often with ak or JJ or even 1010 on the button with 100 bb or less and a $25 raise and a few callers? How about c betting and double barreling does this change in a game like this? How about bet sizes? You like to bet bigger on the flop but with 100 bb and inflated pots due to raise sizes does the philosophy chane some?

    Basically what are adjustments do we need to make that differs or is in addition to what you talk about on the podcasts and clps?
    Bart said

    Psujohn said

    I wnder if you could elaborate on what to play in a low stakes game with large open raises. I get the 10/20 (15/25) rule but what does that leave us to play? Big pairs and AK don't come around that often and playing 10 handed you dont even get many chances to open a KQ or QJs from LP.

    If you do make it to MD Live I'd love to hear a hands from a 1/2 or 2/5 cash game episode
    Unfortunately PSU, it doesn't take a rocket science to play 100bb poker with large open sizes ten handed. It is going to be less about poker skill and more about patience, mental game and hand selection preflop. Often times players will think that their superior skill post flop can widen their range pre and although that can be the case in some select situations, in general moving from fundamentally sound play at the lower levels is spewy.

    Bart
    Bart, I'd really like to hear your response to vernonjones first 2 questions above:
    I believe it would be an easy call with 44 above (easily fits the 15x rule). As far as the JTs hand I believe that it is closer but still a call ( the hand should end up fitting the 25x rule with the additional callers)

    Thanks and keep up the good work
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