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Call All In on the money bubble.

This is online at Bovada, and it is the weekend High Roller 250k guaranteed. Buy in was $470+30, start with 10,000 in chips. I like to play these high roller tournaments because they pay far less places than their main event and placing anywhere in the money is a true double up.

With that being said, we are 8 players from the money and people are wasting their time banks to get to the money. I was top 30 in money but started capitalizing on the passive play and was up to the 4th largest stack at 945k. The guy directly to my left just knocked a guy out and just passed me for the big stack at the table just before the break.

Coming out of the break there are 8 players left until the money, and I get A♤A♡ in my BB. UTG, the new big stack, just shoves All-in. Every hand up to this point almost every player tanks away their time to act plus some of their time bank, but on this hand it folds to the LJ who tanks all of his time away and calls. Then it folds to me and I snap call.

He has K♧K◇.

Flop is J♤ 8♤ 4♤. All good. Turn is Q◇. River is K♡.

Yep he hit the old one outer. So as the hand ends the screen comes up with a message to wait for results from other tables because there are 82 players remaining (81) get paid.

Then the tables get combined and I get a message that I finished in 82nd place. There are now 79 players remaining. I'm not sure how I got 82 and the other 2 dudes got paid during hand for hand, but anyway I should have wasted my entire time bank and time to act because I still had my full 90 second TB and 30 to act. Those 2 mins probably get me paid.

I am never going to fold AA preflop in any spot and that double up would have put me clear in the chip lead and an almost guaranteed final table. My question is, knowing it would be 2 hands max before the money am I supposed to walk outside and smoke or something and just miss a couple of hands and guarantee this doesn't happen or what? I could have folded but if he didn't hit a miracle then I'd be pissed and it would affect my play.

Any thoughts on this?


  • JustfourfunJustfourfun Posts: 204Subscriber
    Seems almost a philosophical question. in the moment prior to the flop you would be glad you were there for that hand and given your ideal situation I think it would be difficult to make the time bank move. i think it is a mistake to give either of these two trivial topics any of your time or mind. Instead, focus on what a potentially lucrative spot you placed yourself in when you called with AA.
  • N8Ball02N8Ball02 Posts: 78Member

    Justforfun- No doubt anyone in the world is happy to get it all-in with AA, especially when winning the hand will have you at a stack size that basically ensures you are final tabling. I also meant to say there were 2 places before the money going into that hand, not 8. The several prior hands I gained a lot of chips with 8 to go.

    This question has more to do with ICM implications. But say in the same scenario, is a hand like AKs just a fold? How many hands can possibly be calls when 1 of 3 players who can eliminate you shoves directly on the money bubble?

    Same scenario on the final table except you are 2nd in chips with 76BB. Leader has 80BB. 6 other players 4 of which have less than 8 BBs and the other 2 have between 11-20BBs. The 2 smallest stacks have 2 and 3BBs.


    8th- $1500

    7th- $2500

    6th- $4500

    5th- $8k

    4th- $13k

    3rd- $21500

    2nd- $37k

    1st- $60k

    In this scenario I'm not sure if it is valuable enough to call a shove with anything but AA. When you can probably just fold your way to $21k it is a nightmare to bust before 4 to 5 of these stacks. While you don't want to be tied up with the big stack, he also doesn't want to be tied up with us. As the Big stacks we need to apply pressure to the medium and small stacks. The 2 medium stacks should be folding almost everything and any resistance to our bets we should proceed with extreme caution.

    I guess this whole post is dealing with ICM implications and while I understand them, I don't know a precise formula that tells you how much looser or tighter one should be in these spots.

  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,252Subscriber
    My thoughts are--and look, we've all been there so I'm not saying you're wrong--but you're simply whining. Yeah guy his a 1-outer on the river. And yeah, he was 1-in-5 preflop, but obvs we ignore that cuz it'doesn't fit our narrative. We just want to focus on the river.

    Look, it totally sucks, but if you think you were going to avoid this by tank-calling, I would like to venture that you don't have the (sicko) mentality for MTT poker. ( I know I don't, and I say this as someone who built my BR from MTTs before finding cash games more my speed)
  • N8Ball02N8Ball02 Posts: 78Member

    Cycle- You are correct in saying that I prefer cash games. I also happen to enjoy MTT tournaments online. I don't mind online cash games but live I definitely prefer cash. Online I seem to play both. I play more live poker than online but the convenience of online poker is hard to beat.

    As far as whining, I'm not upset about it. I wasn't too upset when I wrote the post and kind of forgot about it until the last comment. Its odd because the money bubble is a nice place to add chips as most people are playing super tight. Also most people pushing ALL-IN have the goods.

    What I was getting at, and this comes into play even more so late in the tournament, is going out before short stacks when you can take a nap and make hundreds ir even thousands of dollars is an absolute nightmare. On Final tables if there are 2 big stacks, the guy in 2nd has to stay out of the other dudes way and vice versa, unless you absolutely have the nuts.

  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,252Subscriber
    I do the same thing, online I can do both but live tourneys kill me.

    I'm gonna give a response that isn't mathematically correct, but may be correct anyway. I (and likely you) are firmly for-profit players. So there's no avoiding ICM. Except that I'm not banging away on 20 tables and I'm not at all going to be more than marginally excited by a single mincash. I only play MTTs for a big score, and that basically means FT if not top 3. If I buy in for $100 and a min is $200, well I play 2/5 cash, I dgaf about $200. I'm going for top 3. If I buy in for 1K and min is 2, then I will definitely care, but that because I'm essentially playing above my BR. I know I would totally tighten up in this spot...but not to the "folding AA or KK" stage. QQ maaaaybe, JJ sure, so long as no one will ever know.
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