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I Have Trouble Raising Over Multiple Players.

BambamBambam Posts: 27Subscriber
edited September 25 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I can't get over the issue (fear?) of raising or 3betting preflop when there's multiple limpers or flats in the pot already. One, two, maybe three--fine. I can sometimes still get up the nerve. More than that though and I have problems.

One example from today: I have AK on the BTN. EP opens to $15 and gets 4 callers, and I can see the SB next to me waiting to get his chips in the pot.

Everything I've ever studied (mostly mtt stuff) says I'm supposed to 3bet here. In an MTT I'd jam and probably not think too much about it. But in a cash game, with multiple limps or calls I find it almost impossible to raise it up.

Is this a common issue?

I'm still getting used to cash games. But I know my fold equity in these spots is pretty low. And it just seems like I'm often bloating the pot with a hand that really needs to be heads-up. Maybe that means I need to 3bet bigger but that definitely scares me.

Honestly, I think it makes more sense to 3bet 9Ts in a spot like than it is to do it with AKo.

Cash games are still a mystery to me when it comes to things like this. Please let me know if you have any advice or resources that might help me out. Thanks!

Edit: I want to mention that I've seen players limp in with hands like JJ, QQ, AK, TT, etc.


  • RasputinRasputin Posts: 17Subscriber

    The more limpers, the tighter your range needs to be, but yes, you can really bump it up with these big hands. Through experience you’ll find the sweet spot, how much you need to go to narrow the field. However, other things to consider are the concepts Bart uses in the cbet bluff matrix. I feel they apply here as well. Stack sizes. Players’ skill levels, etc.

    In games like this where there are a lot of multi-way limped pots, you can overlimp a lot too with suited aces, suited connectors, etc.

    Thanked by 1Bambam
  • BambamBambam Posts: 27Subscriber

    I have a lot of notes from C bet bluff matrix. Maybe it’s time to reread those and rewatch. Thanks

  • RasputinRasputin Posts: 17Subscriber

    I was reviewing my notes I took on the curriculum. First Fast track videos Ki assesses dealing with multiple limpers.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 146Subscriber
    I LOVE games where someone opens and gets multiple callers. Be mindful of stacks and of your players, but raising big to take it down pre or drive out multiple players to give you an overlay is printing $$$.
    Thanked by 1Steveo76
  • fishcakefishcake Posts: 1,007Subscriber
    Don't be such a nit. You need to be 3bet squeezing for linear value a lot in live cash games against bad players. Nobody 4bets without the nuts and you print money. On top of all that, winning preflop is huge because it often saves you a big blind or more because of the rake.
    Thanked by 1Bambam
  • Steveo76Steveo76 Posts: 179Subscriber

    I agree with the posters above. One caveat though. It's the 4 betting where the money is IMO. If as @fishcake says, no-one is 4 betting without the nuts in your playing pool, then you want to be the guy doing it! And you don't need the nuts. Identify the players who aren't just taking premiums for a 3! and pounce. Suited broadways (which make it less likely your opponent has a strong hand himself) and position are your friends. It's also advantageous to have a 'clean' image and haven't recently been caught on the steal.

    These concepts are all the more important as we play short handed and players are required to play wider ranges. When you get more skilled/braver you can start stealing from the blinds too, executing 'squeeze' plays. Of course, now and again you're going to run into the guy slowplaying AA-QQ but we can't fear the monsters under the bed.

    I'd recommend grooving your strategies at the 6 max online tables first for small stakes till you get a good feel for identifying the best spots. 25NL should be a good starting point.

    I hope this helps mate. You will only truly grow as a player by stepping out of your comfort zone.

    Good luck at the tables!

    Thanked by 1Bambam
  • BambamBambam Posts: 27Subscriber
    @fishcake It's true, I was being kinda nitty. However, the truth is, the opportunity to 3bet just doesn't come up as often as you'd think. It's usually a lot of limpers. And of course when everyone at the table almost always limps, 3betting when they do finally raise can feel a bit like a mistake.

    I do want to say that I did finally get over this fear of raising over limpers, and even 3betting sometimes. I've also adjusted the range that I do it with. Before I thought I had to 3bet hands like AJo in MP. Lately I've been going with hands that are a little more "playable" postflop.

    I don't know if what I'm doing now is right but it's been working out.
  • BambamBambam Posts: 27Subscriber
    @Steveo76 Believe it or not, I did find a 4bet bluff in my last session Thursday night. There was a guy at the table who'd been aggressive here and there, and showing down pretty light. He got tilted after losing a big hand and made an obvious tilted 3bet at me and my 4bet (T9s) took it down.

    I was proud of myself

    So I am finally finding these spots where I can break out of my timid play style and do things that I hadn't been doing before in my live sessions.

    And I've been using ACR Blitz tables for practice. I know most of it probably doesn't transfer well to live but for what I'm trying to do I think it's helped.
    Thanked by 1Steveo76
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