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$5/$5 PLO Line Check

OMGitsWormOMGitsWorm Posts: 276Subscriber, Professional

Hero effective $1.5k

Home Game $5/$5 PLO optional straddle up to $20 mostly on the button. Buy in $500 - $2k (up to $4k as the game goes on) Game currently 7 handed.

V- Asian late twenties. Maybe in for $5k this session maybe a Vpip around 40. More aggressive with the nuts. did play a passive flopped top two io in a 3b pot against me earlier H 3b pre, 1/2 pot J9x flop turn river went c/c.


H - KT ♣️ J8♦️

H straddle button $10, V bb $20, mp call, H call. I would 3b this hand pre otb half of the time. I 3b a similar hand against V not so long ago so I just called this time.

Pot $65

Flop J7♣️5♠️

V bets $50, mp calls, H $200, V calls, mp calls

Pot $665

Turn Q♠️

V leads $550, mp folds, H calls

River 9♠️

V pot, H $730 to call.


• Pre 3b or flat?

• Thoughts on raising the flop ip multi way?

• I feel it’s obvious/high probability this player turns top set with the lead. Turn play?

• River decision?

Tagged:

Comments

  • GarlandGarland Posts: 529Subscriber
    edited July 14
    It's not my style to pre 3b with your specific holding. I'd probably choose something more connected like KQJ9 double suited.

    I really don't like the flop raise. I would just call and take my equity. You don't want to drive away inferior flush draws and you'll likely only be called from someone with the nut flush draw, which is disastrous.

    Turn you picked up open-ended so I think you have enough of a hand to continue calling with the odds given. He could have something like A♠️AKQ or A♠️AKJ suited to ♠️. I don't think your read of turning top set is accurate as I don't see QQxx calling the big flop raise unless he specifically has something like QQJ7 or QQ77. QQJJ would have already 3-bet the flop.

    River is close. In PLO most people see 3-flush on the board and tend to slow down, not pot. In addition, any set has to worry about a straight. The decision to call is entirely opponent dependent and some factors that lead me to call:

    1. Opponent has previously exhibited undisciplined aggression regardless of the board changing nature of the turn and river? If yes, this weighs towards a call.

    2. Is he the type to bluff with the naked A♠️? If yes, this weighs towards a call.

    Based on your description of "More aggressive with the nuts. did play a passive flopped top two in a 3b pot against me earlier H 3b pre, 1/2 pot J9x flop turn river went c/c." This line is consistent with opponent having a flush very often.

    I would probably just fold.
  • TerpHimselfTerpHimself Posts: 331Subscriber
    I think pre you can mix in some 3B and some calls since you are straddling the button. It is towards the bottom of my 3B range though, and I would not do it vs more than 2 opponents.

    Flop: I am definately not raising here given stack sizes and the fact that MP called in between. V led into two opponents, so our fold equity vs him is going to be very small, and the fact that V is expected to call is going to entice MP to call as well. Now we're in a bloated pot, and as @Garland noted, we are potentially driving out second best types of hands and narrowing our opponent's ranges to their better hands on this flop. So I would say a flop raise is a large overplay vs a just call.

    Turn: Now with our added equity picking up an open ended SD, I think the only play is to call here

    River: SPR is at about .4 facing a river lead. We actually make our hand and are basically bluff catching with the nut straight. This is part of our issue with our flop raise, we made each street larger than it needed to be with out holding. If we were deeper I think we should fold, but given stack size I think we need to call off vs due to stiff A bluffs or him just trying to push us off a hand like a set of 7's
  • OMGitsWormOMGitsWorm Posts: 276Subscriber, Professional

    @Garland @TerpHimself

    this is my reason for occasional raising flop. I’m trying to see the river for a price I want. If I’m raised in this spot I will just fold as I’m most likely beat.

    But after what you both have said I feel I need to change my thoughts on playing like this on the flop.

    Would a raise with a flush only ever be the nut flush given it’s multi way?


    Turn

    @Garland Players leading close pot are heavily weighted to value in this player pool. Never a bluff. The nut hand now becomes QQ. On the river I did ask the player “What did you put me on, on the flop to lead pot turn. I put you on a set he said” So I’m thinking he has QQ in his hand now.

    If that’s the case and he opened with QxQx none of them can be a ♠️

    I did call given the SPR and it’s now unlikely he has flush if he turnt top set. I’m making and assumption he has Qx suited hands and not just Ax♠️QQ as he would play that hand exactly the same.


    I did just put this hand into PPT and on the river I gave him the hand he had QQJ5 ds ♥️♦️ and AT♠️QQ and I have 25% equity.

  • GarlandGarland Posts: 529Subscriber
    edited July 15
    OMGitsWorm wrote: »
    this is my reason for occasional raising flop. I’m trying to see the river for a price I want. If I’m raised in this spot I will just fold as I’m most likely beat.
    But after what you both have said I feel I need to change my thoughts on playing like this on the flop.
    Would a raise with a flush only ever be the nut flush given it’s multi way?

    Turn
    Players leading close pot are heavily weighted to value in this player pool. Never a bluff. The nut hand now becomes QQ. On the river I did ask the player “What did you put me on, on the flop to lead pot turn. I put you on a set he said” So I’m thinking he has QQ in his hand now.
    If that’s the case and he opened with QxQx none of them can be a ♠️
    I did call given the SPR and it’s now unlikely he has flush if he turnt top set. I’m making and assumption he has Qx suited hands and not just Ax♠️QQ as he would play that hand exactly the same.

    I did just put this hand into PPT and on the river I gave him the hand he had QQJ5 ds ♥️♦️ and AT♠️QQ and I have 25% equity.

    Re: Considering flop raise: Yeah, minimum nut flush draw, preferably with something else such as also pairing one card (e.g. A♣️5♣️xx) to block some strong made hands or a gut shot (e.g A♣️9♣️8x) for additional equity. I would also add that you should have at least some fold equity if you decide to make this raise, and as @TerpHimself mentioned regarding V leading into two opponents, that probability is probably low.

    Turn: I'm not saying it is impossible for V to have QQxx, but the hand combinations are rather narrow. But did he truly answer your question before you had to make your river decision? If so, why wasn't this info included in the original post?

    River: The true question is if villain will reevaluate the river given the low SPR? Or is he simply married to his hand at this point and just committing the $$?

    Given the new information, and the point I struggled with given the SPR, you are asked to call $730 into a pot of $1765, which means you have to have $730/($1765+$730) ~ 29% equity, this is not quite the equity needed given your PPT results, but why didn't you also include QQJ7 single suited into his range? (I don't see any QQJ7 double suited possibilities). Also, I challenge the notion he has AT♠️QQ in his range as I don't think he bet calls with this hand especially given he "put you on a set".

    After considering everything said, I'd probably change my river decision to a call.
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