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Help me make a battle plan with this hand for the turn...

GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
$1200 effective. 9 handed 2/3 w/ mandatory UTG 5 straddle. 5 to bring in. Game is pretty decent action and we are seeing the flop with every deal. Maybe 50% of hands are raised pre-flop with a few 3-bets, 3-bet mostly AAxx, but a few villains are capable of 3-betting with hands not AAxx.

Main villain in BB is loose aggressive tricky, very competent. Good hand reader. Capable of bluffing, bluff raising, 3-barreling without the goods and capable of tricky check-raises for value. He is probably the best player at table.

Some prior hand postings with said villain:

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/forums/discussion/15134/river-trips-top-kicker-but-check-raised-by-tricky-villain#latest

http://www.crushlivepoker.com/forums/discussion/15218/flop-a-bottom-boat-and-lead-into-on-every-street-ever-put-in-a-raise#latest

(Hand 6): http://www.crushlivepoker.com/forums/discussion/15115/confessions-of-a-newbie-plo-player-part-4#latest

(Hand 2): http://www.crushlivepoker.com/forums/discussion/15021/confessions-of-a-newbie-plo-player#latest

Pre-Flop ($10-9 players) - 1 limp, I overlimp in LJ with K K :s: 6 3, HJ makes a lol raise to $15, call by CO, button, SB,
BB and limper. I opt to just call completing the action (should I ever entertain re-raising if my read is HJ never has AAxx?)

Flop ($95-6 players): K J :s: 8 :s:. Checks to me, I pot $95, only straddle calls.

Turn ($285-2 players): ??

Please help me construct a battle plan under the following scenarios assuming villain checks to me:
(a) Complete blank non-board pair (2->6 non-spade - 15 cards):
(b) Board pairs (7 cards):
(c) Straight possible cards non-spade: A/Q/T/9/7 (15 cards): [maybe split into subcategories?]
(d) Flush cards (A/Q/T/9/7/6/5/4/3/2 :s:) (10 cards):

Comments

  • TerpHimselfTerpHimself Posts: 329Subscriber
    Pre: I would not reraise this hand @Garland b/c I've seen this move fail to isolate the OR and instead you end up going 3-4 ways to the flop b/c the HJ's call of your raise inspires a domino effect of calls of the players behind you. The time to raise would be if you're in the CO or OTB, not closing the pre-flop action.

    Flop: Pot. Standard.

    Turn: (a) = Continue to pot when checked to. Any hand range that calls the flop does not lose interest on the turn.

    (b) = Bet again here when checked too. Put pressure on you opponent to have to believe you filled up here. You should be betting sets, two pair, and all kinds of big draws on this board. When checked to I merge that range of value and bluffs and continue on board pairs when checked to.

    (c) = B/c we lack any support from our side cards, I check back straight cards and call a bet vs a lead with the thought that our hand can obviously improve, or we can potentially leverage our Ks blocker on spade rivers.

    (d) = Same type of issue as straight cards, but we do block K-high spade hands, so he's going to have more nut value hands, and more stiff A bluffs b/c he can't have top pair + second nut flush draw hands. I play these cautiously b/c we will often have to face a Bet/Bet scenario on turns and rivers from a good opponent so here is where I'm most likely to fold.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
    Pre: I would not reraise this hand @Garland b/c I've seen this move fail to isolate the OR and instead you end up going 3-4 ways to the flop b/c the HJ's call of your raise inspires a domino effect of calls of the players behind you. The time to raise would be if you're in the CO or OTB, not closing the pre-flop action.

    Flop: Pot. Standard.

    Turn: (a) = Continue to pot when checked to. Any hand range that calls the flop does not lose interest on the turn.

    (b) = Bet again here when checked too. Put pressure on you opponent to have to believe you filled up here. You should be betting sets, two pair, and all kinds of big draws on this board. When checked to I merge that range of value and bluffs and continue on board pairs when checked to.

    (c) = B/c we lack any support from our side cards, I check back straight cards and call a bet vs a lead with the thought that our hand can obviously improve, or we can potentially leverage our Ks blocker on spade rivers.

    (d) = Same type of issue as straight cards, but we do block K-high spade hands, so he's going to have more nut value hands, and more stiff A bluffs b/c he can't have top pair + second nut flush draw hands. I play these cautiously b/c we will often have to face a Bet/Bet scenario on turns and rivers from a good opponent so here is where I'm most likely to fold.

    Hi @TerpHimself. Thanks for your reply!

    I was wondering if we could dive a little more into what you said.
    (a) This is precisely what actually happened. See results below.

    (b) Precisely how much would you bet? 1/3, 1/2, pot? I don't like pot because I don't want him to fold out the portions of his range that's drawing dead or nearly dead.

    Also, I think there's some merit to checking back against over-aggressive villains. On Fireman Scott live stream with him on Poker Bros, I observed a raised 5-way pre-flop hand, where a MP player potted top set (nuts) into the field and Fireman Scott called in BB with just a gutshot incorrectly reading villain to potentially have a flush draw. Then the turn filled up the MP player, and it went check/check and on river Fireman Scott was "forced" to bluff all-in into a boat.

    (c) Didn't think about potentially leveraging the 2nd nut blocker, I usually reserve that only when I have the nut blocker.

    (d) My interpretation is you would fold if lead to on the turn. But you can improve with the same number of outs as scenario (c). Please correct me if I misinterpreted. Is it the potential leveraging of the 2nd nut blocker the only reason to call in (c) but fold in (d)? Or is there a better chance you can still be ahead in (c) rather than (d)?
    Turn came 5, villain checked, I pot and he folds.
  • TerpHimselfTerpHimself Posts: 329Subscriber
    Hey @Garland, sorry I missed your reply till now, happy to dive in further.

    (b) Here I want to pick a sizing that matches my bluff sizing for when I do not have a made hand, but want to represent and put pressure on my opponent. So I usually take the larger route, so 2/3 to 3/4 is where I usually end up. You'd be surprised how many people still call that size bet potentially drawing dead. And if your opponents are folding to that size often, now you know in what spots to increase your bluffing frequency. Perhaps in this exact scenario b/c our opponent is competent, 1/2 pot could potentially be more appropriate.

    (c) Yes most people do not leverage that card, and for good reason b/c it can be potentially disastrous when mis-applied. Here, I note we hold the Ks b/c that means our opponent cannot have a top pair + FD hand, meanwhile our range can. On turn cards that bring in the straight, our opponent can lead into us, and his hand likely will be value, but we can call with a plan to bluff potential spades (and not just the As on the river). For example: turn is 9d, opponent bets and we call. River is 3s, opponent now checks. It would be silly for a competent opponent to check the A-high flush here unless he truly believes he has you coolered. So since we how hold a relevent flush card (Ks) that fits into a how we've played the hand on the flop & turn, I stab at the pot OTR to attempt to fold out our opponent's naked straights, and perhaps even his Ten or 9-high spade flushes.

    (d) I do potentially fold if our opponent leads into us in this scenario b/c we are in a much tougher spot to try and execute a bluff on rivers, and our equity to draw out on his is often not the right price on this coordinated a board. Our V has made a bet that implies he is happy with the spade on the turn. This now means that any non-board-pairing river card SHOULD induce a bet from him OTR. We can't even leverage a potential straight flush blocker OTT, b/c all straight flush combos won't include a K. Our opponent can push the As and his actual nut flushes, and unless we are confident we can fold out all his mid-range flush combos (which I'm questioning if a good V leads those very often OTT), we need to raise the turn when we try to bluff, and every time we are called, we're toast unless we fill up on the river. So I like leveraging our Ks blocker in situations where our opponent could have no flushes or weak flushes on the run outs described in example (c). Also be aware that Qs, Ts, 9s cards all bring in potential straight flushes that do fit our opponents range, and we could be drawing stone dead, reverse freerolling ourselves even when we make quads on some rivers. So this presents a lot more situations that are perilous for us than example (c) does.
    Thanked by 1LatvianMissile
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