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Post flop decisions as pre-flop raiser

Steveo76Steveo76 Posts: 161Subscriber
£1/£1 Aspers Casino, London, 8 handed

Please give thoughts on two hands I played yesterday.

Hand 1:

£3 straddle on. LJ (£130) limps. Hero (£210) raises to £13 with 8c8s. Button (£160) calls, LJ calls.

Flop: 8d 3d 2h (£44)

LJ checks, Hero £20, Button raises to £40, LJ folds.


Some background: Villain has seen Hero run some big bluffs in a previous session and successfully picked one off. Villain has just sat down this time.

Hand 2:

£2 straddle on. UTG limps, HJ (£106) raises to £10. Hero in SB (£260) 3! to £41 with AsKs. HJ calls.

Flop: Qs 4d 6c (£87)


Villain has only been at the table for 15 minutes and has no history with Hero.

Thanks in advance guys!


  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 518Subscriber
    H1 I'd be curious what others say about raising this pre because the straddle makes the stacks sizes pretty short. I think I would almost rather limp with this hand given the effective stacks are <40 bbs

    AP - I would 3! shove the flop. There's a better chance his draws will call a flop shove, where he may get away from a brick turn if we just call.

    H2 Tough spot. With the backdoor equity, pf initiative, and a dry flop, I would normally like a like a 1/3 psb. Obviously the short stacks make that option less appealing. He's def gonna have a lot of queens, but he will still have a ton of hands that whiff this flop or have underpairs that will have a hard time calling due to us having a lot of Qx. Any physical info you can share? Age? Dress? (is he wearing the "uniform"?) Shoving is prob not bad, but it's def a high variance play. I think I would check here.

    Hands like these are why I hate the straddle with low eff stacks.
    Thanked by 2Steveo76 crux
  • LatvianMissileLatvianMissile Posts: 297Subscriber
    Hand 1: I'd just call. You'll be able to get it in anyway with V having 77 behind and the pot being smaller with that. The other play is to jam and I think that's ok, too.

    Hand 2: Down bet to 30. Gives a great price on bluffs with BDFD and BDSD
  • cruxcrux Posts: 119Subscriber
    H1: To @kaboojie's point, I think the pre-flop raise is fine unless V in LJ has a history of limp/raising with premium hands, or you have opponents behind that 3! frequently, in which case you may want to limp/call to a raise behind, or limp/fold to a bet-3!.
    On the flop, I think you just 3! jam. Likely hands seem like middle or bottom set, A8 (even though it's solidly blocked) or diamond draw. A lot of action killers on the turn that could shut down V's betting/calling if it's just top pair or draw.
    I see some merit to flatting, too, but I think you could be in a tough spot if a diamond falls on the turn.

    H2: Kind of a shit spot with V having less than a pot-sized bet left. At the same time, I feel like that weights his range to a lot of middle pairs or AX hands as he didn't 4! jam pre. You do have the best no-pair and two back doors, though, as @LatvianMissile mentioned. I like his downbeat size.. something like $25-30. Question there is do you fold for ~$30 more if V now wakes up and jams? It would be $35 to win $215. Unless he has specifically AQ or a set, I think even with no pair you have roughly the equity to call a jam, right?
    Seems like better to bet and maybe call a raise, then to check and fold to what could very well be a bluff...
    Thanked by 1Steveo76
  • Steveo76Steveo76 Posts: 161Subscriber
    Appreciate the feedback as always guys!

    In Hand 1, Hero shoved and Villain folded. At the time I felt that somehow I lost some value there. This can really be a challenge when OOP. In game I considered just clicking it back to £60 to set up a turn shove or even to induce Villain to go all-in himself on the flop. Is this getting too cute?

    In the end I thought let's just get it in now while he likes his hand and before a possible action killer arrives OTT. Also he knows I have a bluff in me.

    In Hand 2, I had made it £41 pre-flop to set up a 2/3 pot sized shove on the flop if I missed. So I just followed through. I didn't go with the downbet because I don't think it accomplishes anything with this SPR. I figured a shove just might fold out his underpairs. And a check just feels like I'm surrendering the pot although I might just about have enough equity to call a shove if he doesn't have exactly AQ? It must be close.

    Anyway, Villain insta called with AQo and scooped.

    Btw, I feel you @kaboojie about straddles with low eff stacks. This is so commonplace and annoying in the games I play. People straddling to £2 or £3 off a £100 stack. It is a challenge to find the right strategy.
  • ChaseSpellChaseSpell Posts: 183Subscriber
    Hand 1: I would likely over-limp 22-66 in this spot. For sure raising 88, but sizing to 15 (4xbb + limper). Since there are 3 "blinds" and a limper you need to size larger to have a reasonable shot of getting HU vs the limper. If you suspect you will rarely get HU with the limper after raising, and also suspect the pot to usually get limped if you over-limp, then I might adjust in those situations by over-limping instead of raising to 15.

    On the flop I'm just calling in theory and in practice. V is much more likely to make mistakes in the turn after you call than he will when facing your flop 3bet.

    Hand 2:
    With 100BB effective stacks, your 3b! size is reasonable.
    Here, you should adjust your sizing accordingly to the open-raiser's 53BB stack.
    You usually shouldn't 3b! to an amount that is 33% of the effective stacks or larger, because if you do, you can't be expected to fold for the remaining 66% of stacks, thus in this spot 3b! to 20BB isnt a good size. Since the opener has stack of 106, you should 3b! to 30 total.

    I would take an exploitative approach in this flop situation and bet 0.33PSB, jam, or check depending on my particular opponent.

    You said, "I figured a shove just might fold out his underpairs." In my experience, the average player will "put you on ace-king" when you 3b! preflop and they will be convinced you have AK after you jam this flop, and call down with their underpairs.
    Thanked by 1Steveo76
  • hustlinhustlin Posts: 366Subscriber
    Hand 1 I would click it back or make it $100, jamming is ok too.
    You can slow play it too, but I think raising here is better get value vs like 99-JJ in case an over card comes.

    Hand 2. I would just jam it. 2 overs and lots of back door draws. Just unfortunate u only got a pot size bet. You can c/c too. Whatever it is your pretty much committed here.
    Thanked by 1Steveo76
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