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SB strategy

SugarmanSugarman Posts: 41Subscriber
edited December 2019 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hi everyone,

In Rob Farha’s latest video (CLP Vid no. 422), he explains why he thinks in most situations, a 3b or fold strategy from the SB is best, especially against a competent LP opener.

I recently had a discussion with Rob under the video in question where he outlined the justification for only 3betting from the SB in preference to a mixed strategy

In Ki’s Fast Track Poker series, specifically in the updated preflop module, he explains how to integrate a mix of 3betting and flatting from the SB.

What is everyone’s thoughts on this and what do you utilise in your games? Seems odd that two leading coaches seem divided on this common and important scenario.

Comments

  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
    It's not uncommon for 2 top winning players to have different strategies that work. My personal opinion is any strategy that dogmatically removes an option (e.g. just calling from SB) is short-sighted. I have experimented with the 3B or fold strategy from SB and can buy into either approach as long as deviations are allowed.
    Thanked by 2kaboojie Sugarman
  • lotto33lotto33 Posts: 75Subscriber
    Imo the best answer is.............. It depends

    Robs strategy of 3 bet or fold is good against tougher opponents. By 3 betting pre you are taking control of the hand and narrow villians range

    With ki's strategy of having a flatting range, I like that against weaker opponents because bad players call too much and by seeing a cheap flop and not bloating up the pot with your weaker holdings, you can hit your hand and punish them post flop with a made hand.
  • cruxcrux Posts: 119Subscriber
    I'm not sure if it was somewhere on here, or elsewhere, recently that I heard that the 3! or fold from SB strategy is basically the default for good online players. For that reason alone, I'm not sure it carries over to live play as well, especially at low stakes.

    For me, it's definitely a strategy I use more in live tournaments, especially when playing 40bb or deeper, than in cash games.

    One for-sure benefit I can see to implementing this strategy across the board for cash games is that it will force you to be more critical of the hands you incorporate into your SB range. While the range should already be pretty tight, I think most players fall into the trap at some point of opening up the SB flatting range in hopes of spiking the board and being able to play profitable check-raises or other lines. The other major benefit lotto mentioned is that you narrow most V's range, and allow you to play better OOP.

    On the flip-side, if you have too wide a range and are only 3betting, as lotto mentioned you can find yourself in bloated pots with hands that are difficult to play, or not playable at all post flop. By keeping a flatting range you can leave yourself this range that can make up the value post flop when the board cooperates.
  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,244Member
    It depends describes it best.
    Vs a late position open/ iso you should have a range that does not contain flats often, you can if BB is a squeeze freak, and in some spots sacrificing pre flop ev but having an edge post is not that bad of a plan.
  • SuperflySuperfly Posts: 591Subscriber
    My understanding of Rob’s position is that he only recommends a 3 bet or fold strategy vs LP opens. He recommends having a calling range vs EP and MP opens. I think this is slightly different from the way you phrased it, but the distinction is important. Is your understanding that Rob prefers or recommends a 3bet or fold strategy even vs EP/MP opens?
  • SugarmanSugarman Posts: 41Subscriber
    Superfly wrote: »
    My understanding of Rob’s position is that he only recommends a 3 bet or fold strategy vs LP opens. He recommends having a calling range vs EP and MP opens. I think this is slightly different from the way you phrased it, but the distinction is important. Is your understanding that Rob prefers or recommends a 3bet or fold strategy even vs EP/MP opens?

    You are right, Rob does recommend a flatting range facing an EP/MP open (the tighter they are opening, the more frequently we can flat certain hands). From what I gathered from his video, though, he would suggest ramping up the 3b frequencies as high as reasonably possible from the SB even from these EP opens (which is totally fine and logical, ofc, just a fair bit different to Ki's ranges)
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    lotto33 wrote: »
    Imo the best answer is.............. It depends

    Robs strategy of 3 bet or fold is good against tougher opponents. By 3 betting pre you are taking control of the hand and narrow villians range....

    it depends

    In deep stack scenarios (300bbs up) a SB 3bet is only good for a giggle...

    The rest well... yeah, quite ok so but why not bloat it vs 3-4 opponents and take it down 1 time out of 5 instead of flatting OOP and taking it down 1 time out of 5?
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    NitBet wrote: »
    lotto33 wrote: »
    Imo the best answer is.............. It depends

    Robs strategy of 3 bet or fold is good against tougher opponents. By 3 betting pre you are taking control of the hand and narrow villians range....

    it depends

    In deep stack scenarios (300bbs up) a SB 3bet is only good for a giggle...

    The rest well... yeah, quite ok so but why not bloat it vs 3-4 opponents and take it down 1 time out of 5 and control the action instead of flatting OOP and taking it down 1 time out of 5?

  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    edited January 2
    NitBet wrote: »
    NitBet wrote: »
    lotto33 wrote: »
    Imo the best answer is.............. It depends

    Robs strategy of 3 bet or fold is good against tougher opponents. By 3 betting pre you are taking control of the hand and narrow villians range....

    it depends

    In deep stack scenarios (200bbs up) a SB 3bet is only good for a giggle...

    The rest well... yeah, quite ok so but why not bloat it vs 3-4 opponents and take it down 1 time out of 5 and control the action instead of flatting OOP and taking it down 1 time out of 5 and act a passive fish?


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