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Can KK be folded pre-flop

$400 Seniors event at the Wynn. $25k Guarantee about 200 entries

level 8 400/800 with 800 big blind, I have 25K stack up from starting stack of 15K after a level 7 rebuy, so I have only been playing at the table around one level. I have solid tight image

Hero 25000 covers

V1 11,000
V2 12,000
V3 24,000

Hero opens UTG with KcKh for 2400, V1 in MP thinks for a minute or so and shoves 11,000, V2 in CO thinks as well for a minute or so and shoves, V3 in BB excitedly instashoves after BU and SB quickly release their hands. Hero?


  • Latrell1515Latrell1515 Posts: 237Subscriber
    So basically we need our KK's to hold up against 3 other hands and the way that you describe the excitedness I have no issue with the fold. There's to me way more at play here apart from JUST the math. What happened?
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    With stacks that shallow everyone and his sister having a hand as bad as 5-5 is going to shove and the calling-ranges may not seem much better. Close eyes, push call and get through it.
  • JustfourfunJustfourfun Posts: 200Subscriber
    I called and V3 turned over AA. V1 had AJ off and V2 had JJ. I was disappointed in my call - not so much that I made the call - but I made the call so fast. After V2 shoves V3 and I shove within less than 5 seconds. In retrospect, I wish I had considered the situation for a minute. V3 was excited about the hand and failed to consider that I was acting behind him. We have all seen the Hollwooding anguished 3 minute delayed shove by players in V3’s spot in an attempt to make me more likely to call. V3 was an inexperienced tourney player and just got excited and insta shoved. I feel like I had decided I was calling before V3 acted and then just went on auto-pilot and called with KK. I only had 2400 chips in the pot. I block most of V3’s range that doesn’t have me crushed with 2 Ks. I am not saying it was a clear fold here but let’s a least stop here for a minute and think. V3’s quick excited shove is a reliable live tell, V3 (like Hero) just got excited with his big hand and failed to consider that his excited shove indicated a big hand with action behind.
    Thanked by 1CycleV
  • NitBetNitBet Posts: 40Member
    I still see no mistake in your decision.
    You are result oriented in my opinion.
    There are six combos AA which beat you, you block all 16 Combos AK and there is a ton of other hands villain could have shoved. If instead your read was so precise, then you should probably go more with your guts.
    However, for me it's a clear cut call after all you told us about your opponent.

  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,196Subscriber
    The way you described it, yeah I can see folding. I haven't played a live MTT in years but that seem like a darn strong tell.
  • mug15mug15 Posts: 11Subscriber
    I have returned to playing live MTTs at the Wynn and V series since I retired here last year. I am amazed at how many live tells people give off - even the younger "pros" who clearly do not have real jobs. I am now more comfortable laying down big pairs when you can see someone who can't GII fast enough - they almost always have the bullets.
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