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'Misclicked' JJ preflop

Six-handed 1-2NL, all recs including hero :P

Hero 300 CO
Villain 300+ BTN

LJ / HJ both limp
H misreads hand, thinks it's straddle to 5 and a call, raises to 21 with Jh Jd. Realised just as I put the chips in, couldn't help groaning.
Villain raises 75
folds to H, call

$157
Qd 5c 8c

H check
V bet 50
H call

$257
(Qd 5c 8c) 4s
H checks
V bet 175 (all-in)
H ?

---
At the time I felt like I didn't really have any queens on that turn, thinking that many of my AQ bluff-shove preflop. (I was thinking: call TT JJ QQ AK preflop, raise KK+ AQ... but of course there's too many AQ and if I actually held it I'd probably call the offsuit ones. So that's one thing learned)

I put the villain fairly tightly at QQ+ AK and maybe some small suited aces bluffing (but assumed not during the hand). Feel like AQ / JJ etc would just call pre rather than raising.

On the flop it seems like an obvious call. Q is the most unlikely overcard to be hit. AA KK are obviously bad for us still, but the bet is small, and villain almost certainly cbets all AK here. If I have QQ or AcKc AcQc I shove, AQ calls (but I'm still thinking I don't have (m)any AQ), TT calls, AK without Ac folds.

On the turn things are tough. In the end I call, thinking I don't have enough queens to only call with those. Three AcK + six TT fold, I have to call with something.

---
Villain had AK, but even though we got it in good I'm not sure about the decision process here. In the hand I was thinking I don't have any AQ at all - that's clearly wrong, but even if I have 15 combos of AQ on the turn (i.e. don't bluff raise any preflop) I can't fold half my range (3 AK 6 TT 6 JJ) to a 2/3 pot bet.

What do you think? I suppose the answer is just don't misclick preflop :P

(river was an A, which might be colouring my thinking here a bit)
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Comments

  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 518Subscriber
    In the future, please don't post results so quick. It can affect the answers you get.

    It's 175 to call 432. You are getting just under 2.5 to 1 on a call. You will need to be good 1 out of 3.5 or 29% of the time.

    You do not have Jc in your hand so that's a good thing (increases the fds he could have that you are ahead of)

    If you give V QQ+, ATcc+, A5cc, KJcc, JTcc+, you would have 18% equity ott. That would make this a fold.

    Do you recall the suits V had? AKcc would be in line with what I gave him, but if it was another suit distribution, I suggest making a note because that does change things. For example, if we can give V all AK, you have at least 44% equity (maybe more if he spazzs with more combos) and that would make this a call.

    In summary, I'd fold without more info. Population usually has you beat here. If he shows down with AKo and no draws, you should call him much lighter.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    How often do players in this game 3!? There are a number of recreational players that I would fold JJ to for anything more than a 2.5x 3! because their 3! range is so tight.
  • ds2uaredds2uared Posts: 464Subscriber
    edited October 2019
    I would argue this is not a "misclick" preflop. Think about it like this, a standard raise preflop at a $2/$5 game with $7 in the pot is $20.

    With the 2 calls preflop, there's $7 in the pot. I know the dynamics at $1/$2 are a little different than at $2/$5, but my standard raise preflop at $1/$2 is $10. With 1 call, it's $12. With 2 calls it's $16-$20, depending on the game flow. The only difference is there are more players left to act with money in the pot. And given players are a bit looser at $1/$2, I tend to wait for value and size up.

    I would fold this preflop. You raised big. Then you got 3! big. Players at this level don't 3! without your JJ being beat. That's not hyperbole. I hear, "I didn't want to raise with AK because it never hits," all the damn time. So, so, so many bad recs will call with AK preflop in this spot.

    As an aside, in the future if there's a straddle and a call at your table and you look down at a hand you're going to raise with, you need to raise to at least $25. There are 4 players with money in the pot already (and therefore getting a discounted price to pay) and 2 of them have $5 already, and one of them has shown he has a hand he wants to play with but not raise with.
    Thanked by 1CycleV
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