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2/5 Flop Play Questions

Hand 1: 2/5/10 straddle on...600 eff... Hero opens in MP to 40 with A J, BB and Straddle call. (121) Flop J 5 4 :s: Checks to Hero who C-bets 50. BB Calls. Straddle Check Raises to 150. Hero?

BB is thinking player, Hero has no reads or history vs Straddle, but Straddle had been mostly passive.

Hand 2: 650 eff... no straddle this hand. UTG and UTG 1 limp. Hero to 25 with A A :s:. HJ calls, Bu and both limpers call. (131) Flop J 9 :s: 9. UTG checks, and UTG 1 leads for 40. Hero?


  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
    edited September 2019
    Hand 1: I think $30 pre would be fine. As played, you hold the key A card, so no one can have the nut flush draw. The flop bet is fairly small in relationship to the pot, and I’d rather bet about $60-$70. No reads, it’s hard to envision a hand less than AJ raising for the standard population in your stakes, and it is especially true if you say straddle had been mostly passive. He can show up with hand like QQ. In addition, it is possible BB could be sandbagging 44/55. I would find a disciplined fold in this spot.

    Hand 2: Not sure why you chose to raise relatively smaller here than in Hand 1. I would expect a raise to $30 and maybe $35 based on Hand 1. I am probably just flatting keeping J in the hand drawing slim. You might have to navigate some potential straight draws if anyone else calls.
  • ds2uaredds2uared Posts: 464Subscriber
    Hand 1: I agree with Garland. Depending on the table dynamics, I'll usually raise to $30-$35 with the straddle on from MP. On the flop, I think this does take some discipline, but is a fold, especially with the caller in between. If BB had folded, this changes to a call and evaluate turn card and turn action.

    Hand 2: You basically have the exact same pot preflop as with the straddle but with 1 extra player to navigate (1 straddle versus 2 limps). You should still be making this $30-$35 here.

    On the flop, I can make the case for a small raise. I don't advocate "finding out where I'm at" bets. But this is actually a great spot for a small value raise with the added benefit of "finding out where I'm at". When the person to your immediate right bets, every other villain is left to act, meaning they will be facing a donk bet and a raise from the PFR. They effectively have to play their hand face up.

    Additionally, a small raise will allow the villain to continue with value hands and draws while you hold position the rest of the way. As long as I have position on the flop bettor, I'll actually do this very often. Perhaps my logic is wrong, but if the rest of the hand bricked out, I'd probably call down all the way this deep. To me, the way this played out, this is a "limit-my-losses" Aces hand, not a "push-the-value" aces hand.

    Thoughts, @Garland ?

    Thanked by 2CycleV Steveo76
  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,196Subscriber
    Good points above. I agree w G on hand 1, a better flop bet would lower the chance he's cluelessly raising a hand like KJ.

    Hand 2 I like D's click it up, and I think he laid out a good rationale for it, forcing some face up play from V's left to act.
  • SuperflySuperfly Posts: 591Subscriber
    I agree hand 1 is a fold but only because of the short stack size. If deeper, I would call and continue on turn if we hit an A, J, or club. A third club could very well slow a passive V down on the turn. The only reason I’m folding in this case is because the implied odds of hitting the flush aren’t there with the short effective stack.

    Hand 2. It seems to me that everyone is missing that the straddle is off in this hand. Still with two limpers, I’d probably raise to At least $30 too.

    If there were fewer players I would prefer a call per G-man’s suggestion. But 5 handed with 3 players left to act behind I can also see the benefit of a small raise-fold play for protection and information. In fact, I kinda like it.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
    edited September 2019
    Hand 2: Yeah, it’s 5 ways so it kind of sucks if someone has a straight draw especially since we don’t block any outs with our specific holding. I wouldn’t hate a small raise, but would hate it if everyone folded. I like to get value from my AA. If I felt I could marry the UTG1 player with a Jx hand, I would actually prefer a raise. The benefit of not raising is another J can also call behind. Also even without the raise, I think we can safely find a fold if a 3rd party raises.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,575Subscriber
    Garland couldnt have said it better. It's what I was going to say.
  • LatvianMissileLatvianMissile Posts: 294Subscriber
    Appreciate all the feedback guys
    Hand 1 Hero folded to the c/r since we hold the A and the BB also folds. Never found out V's hand.
    Hand 2: The straddle was off. Typical starting raise was 20, so agree it should have been 30. Just screwed that up live.

    On flop Hero called and BB also called. Wanted to know what you guys thought of the flop. Turn was T, UTG 1 bets, 75, Hero calls, and UTG c/r to 275. UTG 1 folds and Hero folds. Turn play is questionable, too, but the flop play leads us there. Also never found out V's hand here.
  • SuperflySuperfly Posts: 591Subscriber
    I don’t think turn fold is questionable in Hand 2. When UTG checkraises UTG1 who has led out on flop and turn on paired board, with PFR still in the hand, UTG is definitely representing more than 2P and probably more than trips. Can’t imagine UTG bluffing in this spot.
    Thanked by 1LatvianMissile
  • ds2uaredds2uared Posts: 464Subscriber
    Garland wrote: »
    If I felt I could marry the UTG1 player with a Jx hand, I would actually prefer a raise. The benefit of not raising is another J can also call behind. Also even without the raise, I think we can safely find a fold if a 3rd party raises.

    I feel confident in targeting the player who donked into 4 other players for having a J or a draw. What is he lead/folding on this flop? Sometimes a weak Jack?

    And I fold to this X/R 100% of the time versus average opponent,

    Thanked by 1LatvianMissile
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