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Choose Your Value Bet: Part 4 Thick Value 3-ways

GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
edited June 2019 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Location: Talking Stick Resort in Scottsdale, AZ
Stakes: $3/$5 $300-$1500 ($500 cap betting)
Effective stack $~650

V1 (button) was female who was loose semi-aggressive pre-flop and fairly straight forward post flop. Can be a little sticky calling down light.

V2 (SB) 30ish male player who is very loose pre-flop and passive post flop. This person has shown in the last hour to check back river in position with 2 pair where a value bet was certainly warranted.

Pre-flop ($8): I (~$650) open CO to $20 with J J, both button and SB call.

Flop ($65 - 3 players): A J 2. x, $25 both call. This dry board, any A , any gut shot and case J on the table.

Turn ($125 - 3 players): 7 :s:. x $60, both call. All gut shots/Case J off the table, firmly have both on an A.

River ($245 - 3 players): Q x I bet ??

Comments

  • LatvianMissileLatvianMissile Posts: 294Subscriber
    I think 125 is the bet here on the river. I can still see an A calling, two pair definitely calls and we want to get as much value as possible. I think you're folding out too many aces if you bet more and some weak Aces will probably fold with a bet of 125 anyway.

    How much did you raise pre? 19?

    I think we need a bigger bet on the turn, something like 75-80. You're only getting a call from an A anyway but this way we can get just a little more value on the river.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber

    How much did you raise pre? 19?

    $20, sorry edited post.

  • hustlinhustlin Posts: 362Subscriber
    2/3 or you can even bet pot.
    Try max value against AQ/AK.

    Also weaker Ax's probably wont call u a 3rd street. so might as well get max value
    Thanked by 1CycleV
  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,196Subscriber
    I think you should have bet bigger on every street postflop. Flop, we don't block Ax. $45, puts more money in the middle. Turn, the 1/2 psb seems good, but with bigger flop bet it's now a bit juicier for you. River, I agree we probably have to hope one of them stumbled into 2p. In this spot I'm targeting just one of them to call; betting smaller and hoping they both call is optimistic, unless they are extremely special.
    Thanked by 2Superfly JKH
  • SuperflySuperfly Posts: 591Subscriber
    V1 is sticky and V2 can just call down with 2P. Bet big enough to polarize yourself and hope one or both bite. Two little black chips?
  • PiggyPiggy Posts: 172Subscriber
    Fist pump blast river for at least 150-175. After both villains call flop I would’ve sized up on the turn.
  • JKHJKH Posts: 835Subscriber
    My opinion not blocking an ace against weak competition I would size : flop at $40 , if both call, $120, if both call again around $275-300 on the river. The undersized flop ripples exponentially a smaller overall pot.
  • GarlandGarland Posts: 518Subscriber
    edited July 2019
    I really don't like betting $40+ on the flop. I can get on board with a slightly larger sizing, but no more than $35. The thing with my hand is I want to cast as wide a net as possible. I want any J or 2 to peel drawing virtually dead. I want gutters and backdoors to call. In addition, I want to give myself a good price on my bluffs if I have hands like KQ/KT/QT. As played, if I bet $40-$45, it's almost a sure bet only 1 villain will call.

    The turn, I can get on board with a slightly bigger bet, but wanted to keep both on the hook. Mission accomplished...value from both opponents drawing dead with the potential for much more if one or both improves on the river.

    As commented, I think the only way I can get true river value is by hoping someone has 2 pair. I bet $200 attempting max-value, but both folded. Maybe a river call was never meant to be... V1 commented she had a big A, and wanted to fold the turn, which validated my turn sizing.
  • SuperflySuperfly Posts: 591Subscriber
    It’s very unlikely she had a “big ace” unless by that she meant AT or A9. I suppose if you had bet $100 you might have gotten called, since you do think she’s slightly sticky. But tough to get 3 streets as the PFR vs that hand on that board.
  • ds2uaredds2uared Posts: 464Subscriber
    edited July 2019
    I also fall on the side of the fence for a larger flop bet. The board is not super dynamic. Although you might get the case J or a 2 to come along, there are so few of both in their range.

    While you do win money most of the time versus their gutshots that peel, when they hit their gutshots you're definitely going to lose a hefty sum more and I'm just not sure you're being compensated when you size down.

    And when you include that part of their range in your target, I think you lose more value versus their paired Ace than you gain from the rest of their range.

    One of the concepts I have heard Bart mention is being more likely to bet your flopped set of Aces over a flopped set of Kings simply because people are so much more likely to play an Ace than any other card. I think that definitely applies to flopping a set with an Ace on board.
    Garland wrote: »
    The turn, I can get on board with a slightly bigger bet, but wanted to keep both on the hook. Mission accomplished...value from both opponents drawing dead with the potential for much more if one or both improves on the river.
    I'm actually a big fan of your turn sizing in this particular situation. You can keep in both of their Aces whereas I would expect a bet of $75-$80 to get one to fold.

    River: $125-$135. Them stumbling into 2-pair is unlikely.

    You have the best hands for discussion.

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