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Loose game 15-25-35 adjustments

Hey Guys,

I play in super loose pre flop games where 5x raises habitually go 4+ handed. When in position or closing action or even 1 off that because these are soft games, is it safe to deviate from these rules even if I have only 80bb? I just feel the implied odds are so massively multiplied due to so many players seeing the flop. Insight is appreciated.


  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,196Subscriber
    Long answer:

    The game is 1/3, you have $250 in front of you. EP makes it 15, 2 callers, you're otb with 87s. Using the formula, you need to be able to make $15x25=$375. So you're going to need at least 1 all in, and either both other callers to call the flop bet, or a second player goes all in as well. AND at least one of them has to cover you, while the second can't be a short stack which are everywhere in low stakes games. AND your hand has to hold up against 2-3 other players who have a hand so good they either shoved or called your all in.

    The last part is the key. There are still plenty of players who can't let go of aces and will stack off on any board, but you need TWO people to do it. And since only one guy raised pre, the others don't usually have a hand strong enough to stack off with...unless it's the same kind of ace-crackin' hand like yours and they make a better hand than you. If 2 other players go all in, on a 3-flush board, your 8-high flush likely ain't good. On most boards 87 won't be the top 2p; if it somehow is by the river, obv there's straights available. So with 2 all ins on a board of K87xx, don't be surprised to see AA (or AK) and K8s or K7s. Unless you have not 1 but 2 players who will stack off w tp, when the money goes in you're often "coolered". (I put that in quotes cuz maybe good players don't get in that situation as often.)

    With 87s if you have 2p or the nut straight and your get two other all ins, the best case scenario is you are up against 2 overpairs (the original raiser had aces, can't lay it down, one called had JJ and is a moron), and that your hand holds up. (Against AA and JJ on an 872r board, you're still only 64% to win. Against AA and T9s on the same 872r board, you're only 49%.) But most of the time, if you have 2p and two other players go all in on the turn, you're not ahead. If a flush is on board and 2 other players go all in, you're not ahead. Many of your straights won't be to the nuts.

    The not-so-secret secret in poker is that EVERY SINGLE HAND does better against fewer opponents. But when we call with speculative hands, we need lots of opponents (or tremendous stack depth) to make the math work. In low stakes games, the math often just isn't there. Which is why a boring, TAG style is almost always the correct strategy to beat these games.

    Short answer with some tough love: If you don't have 100BB in front of you, you're not ready to deviate from sound theoretical play and/or The Gospel of Bart.
    Thanked by 2Cardwzzle neutron212
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