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1/3 Triple Barrel or give up?

joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
edited June 2019 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Villain is effective stack with $200. He hasn't been at the table long, but appears to be a pretty passive rec of Asian descent.

Hero opens MP1 to $12 with J :s: 9 :s:. Villain calls in CO.

Flop is T :s: 7 3 :s: . Hero bets $20. Villain calls.

Turn is K . Hero bets $40, Villain calls.

River is 5 . Pot is now $143, Villain has about $125-$130 remaining, should I fire a 3rd barrel here?

Comments

  • Bart HansonBart Hanson Posts: 6,151Administrator, LeadPro
    I probably would yes. Its going to be unlikely that the villain has a king here unless its K :s: X :s: but you block a lot of the spade draws. I would probably go $75-$100 or you could polarize all-in if you thunk that that will get you more fold equity.

    The problem with some of these multi barrels at the low stakes of NL is that most players in your position wont play AA or AK like this (bet all 3 streets and river value bet) so people will sometimes realize this and look you up with a T. If thats the case then you have to get make value with hands like KQ + on this runout with a bet of all 3 streets. Bart
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    Imo next time you should size up turn here if we plan on continuing blank rivers.

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber

    Bart wrote: »
    The problem with some of these multi barrels at the low stakes of NL is that most players in your position wont play AA or AK like this (bet all 3 streets and river value bet) so people will sometimes realize this and look you up with a T.

    I really don't think this player is thinking that deep, I think he is just playing his cards. That being said, I could still see him getting sticky with a T. I've also heard you talk about not barreling with missed front door flush draws because you block more of the hands your opponent would give up, but does that apply more to nut draws since many players will play any suited A?
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    Imo next time you should size up turn here if we plan on continuing blank rivers.

    Can you explain the reasoning here? How much bigger are we talking?
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    edited June 2019
    We repping a J here. Recs at this limit aren't going to Pat attention to pot size bets so a bet where it's just double isn't going to look like a strong hand usually. I would take this sizimg with more value hands.

    Also if we assume villains have a draw here or a weak hand , we gonna need FE on turn too if we are betting our draws In this manner. We don't just get value from made hands but semi bluffs that get through. If we plan on triple barreling it gets easier if we start sizing the pot to where a river bet/shove looks like value

    I will say that villain only being $200 deep does make a difference here. Makes me want to bomb turn even more since he's just calling with a short stack and not trying to get it in with us. Or we can check back turn too here.
  • PokerShamanPokerShaman Posts: 107Subscriber
    That "doubled" bet of 40 was just a hair short of 2/3 x pot. What's wrong with that sizing? Note that, as played, the villain has less than a PSB on the river.
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    It's more about the amount it goes up. Just doubling the previous bet. It's not very strong. This line would be better for a made hand like TP imo.

    The stack sizes though screws it up a but. Thought it was closer to 100bbs
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    So in your eyes is there a significant difference in going $20/$40 and $20/$45 or $20/$50 because of the ratio?

    I do agree that if I had decided I was only going to take one more shot at it that the turn bet should have been bigger, maybe like $55
  • PiggyPiggy Posts: 172Subscriber
    I would bet bigger on the turn, say $50-55.

    We have the perfect double barreling card. Villain shouldn’t have any K except KXss. And best of all we’ve picked up a ton of additional outs due to the double-gutter.

    When river bricks out, I’m inclined to triple barrel this one even though front door spades bricks out and we are the aggressor. Yes we block some spades but we don’t have As. If villain is on a dominating flush draw I want to fold out his ace high hands. If we had the NFD I could get on board check-folding because we at least have some showdown value with ace-high.
  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    That’s pretty much where I have landed. Check NFD, barrel the rest of them.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,581Subscriber
    Bet $100 as a bluff. That should be enough to get him to fold.
    Also low stakes players tend to think shoves are bluffs more than if you just bet $100 here after some thought.
    Also take note to his turn reaction to your bet. If he hemmed and hawed then call I would lean on betting $100. If he snap called I would actually lean on betting smaller like $75. When he snap calls the turn he has a draw or he has a King with who knows what. So you are target bluffing the draw part of his range on the river. He is never folding a king. But when he hems and haws now that opens up more pairs in his range instead of draws. So now you have to bet larger targeting that weak pair range in which you have zero show down vs.
    Thanked by 1CycleV
  • CardwzzleCardwzzle Posts: 21Subscriber
    jojacks wrote: »
    but appears to be a pretty passive rec of Asian descent.

    Lmao
  • MmumfordMmumford Posts: 39Subscriber
    Bart wrote: »
    If thats the case then you have to get make value with hands like KQ + on this runout with a bet of all 3 streets. Bart
    If he rarely has a king then can you value bet QT+ on the river here for a large sizing because of the missed FD? Is 1 overcard good enough to warrant a triple barrel when there is a front door flush draw that misses? It seems close. What about an underbet to fold out the nut flush draw and Q high spades?

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    I do like the smaller sizing for the 3rd barrel in this spot (maybe $60-$65). My perception is that this opponent will call too much, which means he may look me up light, but it also means that he will have a much wider range on the river than he should. A smaller barrel could fold out the bottom of that range without unnecessary risking more.
  • JoneseyJonesey Posts: 151Subscriber
    I don’t like to speak for Bart (senator, you’re no Bart Hansen) — but I think the danger he warns of is in bluffing river missed front door flushes if you’ve been passive — just calling on the flop and turn. It looks like a missed draw. By barreling the flop and turn you’ve set up a great three barrel bluff.
  • SonnySonny Posts: 390Subscriber
    We have a lot of equity on the turn with our flush draw and double gut... What about checking the turn and trying to realize out equity? A Jack might even be good. I think if we check, at this level, the opponent will probably check back most of the time when top pair changes.

    I've pretty much stopped all tripple barrelling at $1/3 unless our opponent is deep. I dont think its costing me money. Perhaps I could be making a few dollars more per hour by firing multiple barrells, but to me, I'd rather give up a possibly slightly profitable spot, if that means we're going to loose a lot if we are wrong or it doesnt work. I just dont think the positives beat the headaches.

    In this spot it seems like we probably have to tribble barrel, but its questionable if itll get through... the guy only started with $200, on the river, in his mind hes already put in basically half his stack. Its hard to get guys who put in $80 off of a $200 stack to fold much of anything. They dont love it, but theyll usually sigh, call and say "nice hand, you're probably good"...

  • joshofalltradesjoshofalltrades Posts: 134Subscriber
    There may not be a huge difference in EV at these levels, but barreling is way more fun and firing the 2nd barrel keeps more options open on the river.

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