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Help me fix my biggest leak

Hi guys,

I'm having a big leak of having a tendency to pay people off.

like for example:

Game 1/3 $500 max bet

V was MAWG, bluffy, loose player
V stack $600
Hero stack $600

V opened to $25 from MP

Folded to hero on the button with Q :s: J and called $25
SB folded, BB folded.

Is my button call questionable against loose bluffy player?


I knew he had a big hand because in previous hand he raised $15 with T9off so $25 indicated big hands.

Anyway, hero called and heads up to the flop:

Q 5 8 :s: ($54)

V bet $75, hero called

Turn 4 :s: ($204)
V bet $175, hero called

River 9 ($554)
V bet $100, Hero was getting 6.5 to 1 to call the river.

Hero called. V showed K K

I need to stop this leak ASAP. The problem is my gut instinct about his betting size was correct, but I kept calling.

Is there a CLP video or podcast about stop paying off people?
Tagged:

Comments

  • sivaddivadsivaddivad Posts: 341Subscriber
    edited April 2018
    had you seen this player open to this size at all before?

    I would have let this one go pre. An unsuited QJ isn’t a profitable call given this raise size and configuration.

    I have found that most people who payoff too much are too loose pre, so they end up in more spots where they have kicker problems or run into an overpair.

    Since you did call pre, you must call flop. This is one of the better hands you can have here and you can’t be folding top pair, even to this bet.

    On the turn, I think you can let this one go. $175 is a massive bet in most 1/3 games and screams overpair (especially with the large pre and flop sizing). Unless ou think he is a total maniac.
    Thanked by 1CycleV
  • poseidonposeidon Posts: 88Subscriber
    edited April 2018
    sivaddivad wrote: »
    had you seen this player open to this size at all before?

    I would have let this one go pre. An unsuited QJ isn’t a profitable call given this raise size and configuration.

    I have found that most people who payoff too much are too loose pre, so they end up in more spots where they have kicker problems or run into an overpair.

    Since you did call pre, you must call flop. This is one of the better hands you can have here and you can’t be folding top pair, even to this bet.

    On the turn, I think you can let this one go. $175 is a massive bet in most 1/3 games and screams overpair (especially with the large pre and flop sizing). Unless ou think he is a total maniac.

    No. I had not seen V opened for $25. In my initial post I said: in previous hand he raised $15 with T9off so $25 indicated big hands.

    So my read was correct but didn't follow through and I wasn't playing my A game.

    I remembered watching a video saying try to remember 3 hands in today's session and write them down.

    So I had written a note for this specific V. My note said: "he wouldn't bet turn if he checked flop. Maybe because his calling range was too wide"

    I just checked my notes again.

    So your suggestion is spot on! I should have let this go on the turn. $175 is massive for these players!

  • fozbofozbo Posts: 144Subscriber
    edited April 2018
    I've recently been calling too much vs continued aggression by bad/fishy players and it has cost me a ton of money, I just stop calling them pre, for a long time I was basically never the caller always the pfr, I'm pitching QJo pre unless I know the guy is stacking off if I hit 2 pair+, even then I'd pick a different hand, anyways my advice ( that I don't always follow) is to start over folding to continued aggression, I know it's harder in practice and many times when I'm at the top of my range for certain hands, like you are in this case... can't ask for too much more than this runout for QJ.. I just fold to the continued aggression, or sometimes call and wish I folded almost immediately, basically just fold more... or I have to anyways... gl
    Thanked by 1CycleV
  • stayinschoolstayinschool Posts: 2,969Subscriber
    I'd fold pre but i don't think we can fold post, turn can't fold and river getting too good a price.
  • PNW_ChrisPNW_Chris Posts: 31Subscriber
    Poseidon, if you have not, I would suggest watching Ki's Fast Track Poker curriculum, especially the pre-flop videos. I think it is great material, and to sivaddivad's point, a lot of these leak issues can probably be solved by adjusting your pre-flop game.

    These days, I am playing fewer hands overall, and rarely calling pre-flop raise, but I am 3-betting more or usually the pre-flop raiser. I've found myself in a lot fewer of these spots you describe.
    Thanked by 2poseidon CycleV
  • pokeromcpokeromc Posts: 40Subscriber
    $25 pre over no limpers is huge in my 1/3 game. i could easily fold and not think twice about it.

    cbet 75 into 54 (?!?). again, i mean if he thinks he's exploiting us when he has nothing and getting us to fold for a ~1.5psb, he's going to be in for a wake up call when we have a hand. this flop is pretty dry.

    turn, meh, same.

    river is the only street that it makes sense to call given the odds, but getting to the river through pre/post should have been sending alarm bells off.
    Thanked by 2CycleV poseidon
  • Fletch23Fletch23 Posts: 115Subscriber
    First, I think you can fold this preflop. That’s a pretty huge raise and there’s not even any other money in the pot. Also, if he’s very loose, a lot of his raises will be with trash that won’t pay you off when you hit your hand. And most often, you’ll both miss and you’ll have to fold. What are you hoping for? He has QT exactly and the flop comes with no A or K and one of the 2 remaining Qs? Or he has AK exactly and the flop comes AKT?

    In general, I think you should also bear in mind that at this level, people’s big bets very often indicate big hands. Someone who may appear to be terrible/loose/crazy/fishy will often play weirdly preflop and call down with weird stuff, but they won’t make big bets on the turn or river when they don’t have it.

    The more I think about play at this level, I think you aren’t going to make your money by sniffing out bluffs or making hero calls. You’re going to make it by not throwing away $15 an hour on bad preflop calls that you don’t even remember making when the session is over, and also by not calling these huge bets when all you have is a pair.

    They will call you for all their money when they have a pair and you have a set/2 pair/overpair, but you won’t call them.

    That’s how you win.
    Thanked by 2poseidon Rysher8
  • poseidonposeidon Posts: 88Subscriber
    pokeromc wrote: »
    $25 pre over no limpers is huge in my 1/3 game. i could easily fold and not think twice about it.

    cbet 75 into 54 (?!?). again, i mean if he thinks he's exploiting us when he has nothing and getting us to fold for a ~1.5psb, he's going to be in for a wake up call when we have a hand. this flop is pretty dry.

    Yes, I have definitely adjusted to $25 open in my 1/3 game. It is huge.
    Fletch23 wrote: »
    First, I think you can fold this preflop. That’s a pretty huge raise and there’s not even any other money in the pot. Also, if he’s very loose, a lot of his raises will be with trash that won’t pay you off when you hit your hand. And most often, you’ll both miss and you’ll have to fold. What are you hoping for? He has QT exactly and the flop comes with no A or K and one of the 2 remaining Qs? Or he has AK exactly and the flop comes AKT?

    In general, I think you should also bear in mind that at this level, people’s big bets very often indicate big hands. Someone who may appear to be terrible/loose/crazy/fishy will often play weirdly preflop and call down with weird stuff, but they won’t make big bets on the turn or river when they don’t have it.

    The more I think about play at this level, I think you aren’t going to make your money by sniffing out bluffs or making hero calls. You’re going to make it by not throwing away $15 an hour on bad preflop calls that you don’t even remember making when the session is over, and also by not calling these huge bets when all you have is a pair.

    They will call you for all their money when they have a pair and you have a set/2 pair/overpair, but you won’t call them.

    That’s how you win.

    I agree that my players pool only bet big with made hands. They only bet about half pot when bluffing. So it's pretty easy to read.

    I also think I was playing my B or C game when this happened.
  • FriendlyFishFriendlyFish Posts: 123Member
    I think your biggesf problem here is calling wifh QJ. The raise size is 8x. I would fold QJo on the button vs mp’s normal 3-4x raise let alone an 8x raise. Just dump it pre and all your problems are solved
    Thanked by 1poseidon
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