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1-3NL Bottom boat facing overbet on river. Is my thinking on every street incorrect?

boobearboobear Posts: 13Subscriber
edited March 2018 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
I think I may have played every street (including preflop) in a non-standard way.

This game has a 10% rake up to $8.

Effective stacks is $350.

I have a pretty tight image.

The villain in this hand is a LAG. He either raises to 15 or folds, never limps. He's won several small pots without going to showdown. He just lost a medium sized pot (He raised to 15, got called by the small blind to my left. J3352, 2 hearts on the flop, small blind check-raises flop, turn goes check/check, river goes bet/call, small blind shows 34o and villain mucks)

Anyway, here's the hand that I played.

As I mentioned, effective stacks is $350.

I'm on the button and there' s a $6 straddle.

It folds to Villain and he opens to $20.

I call on the button with 6 9. I know this is probably a fold but I don't like folding my button, my image is pretty tight, $20 is a pretty small open considering the straddle, and my hand is pretty easy to play post-flop.

Blinds and straddle all fold.

Flop ($50) Q 6 3

Villain cbets $20. This is a pretty small bet and I think the standard play is to just call with middle pair and a backdoor flush draw. However, this is such a dry flop and his bet size seemed like he wasn't very strong. I have a tight image and position and if I raise I might even be able to get a Q to fold.

I raise to $75. He thinks about it for 30 seconds then calls.

Q1. How is my thought process/logic on the flop?

Turn ($200) 6 :s:

He checks. Effective stacks are $255 and I think the standard play would be to bet like half pot now and jam the river. I doubt he puts me on a 6 so my hand strength is pretty disguised.

However, I decide to check back instead for the following reasons: His range for calling my raise on the flop is probably [88, 99, TT, JJ, Qx]. If I bet the turn he probably only continues with AQ maybe KQ. He probably folds QT/Q9 and weaker. However, if I check the turn he might decide to bet the river with one of those weaker hands perhaps as a bluff.

I look really strong if I take the raise/bet/shove line. What hands even call me? He might even find a fold with AQ on the river. I figure I only have max 1 street of value at this point. He either has a hand that will call 1 more bet, either on the turn or the river. Or he has a hand that would fold the turn but might decide to bet the river if I check.

Q2. How is my thought process/logic on the turn?

River ($200) Q

Effective stacks are $255. Villain thinks for a few seconds then jams all-in.

I know I said that I checked the turn to induce a bet on the river but I wasn't expecting an overbet. I feel like now his range is polarized. If he has a hand like JJ and he puts me on a hand like 88, he would check and hope to win at showdown. Plus my turn check looks kinda fishy. It looks like I raised the flop as a bluff then gave up on the turn. So on the river he would probably use his medium pairs as bluff catchers and go for the check/call.

Therefore, when he goes all-in he either has a complete buff or a Q. At this point it doesn't matter if I have 88 or a 6 because he either has a hand stronger than a 6 or a hand weaker than 88. He wouldn't go all-in with a hand stronger than 88 but weaker than a 6.

Since his range is so polarized and I couldn't think of many possible hands that he has that are complete air (there's no flush draws). So I figured he must have a Q and folded.

Q3. How is my thought process/logic on the river?

Like I said, I probably played every street in a non-standard way. I'm just wondering how poorly I played this hand or if there's any merit to any of my plays.

To recap:

Q1. How is my thought process/logic on the flop?
Q2. How is my thought process/logic on the turn?
Q3. How is my thought process/logic on the river?

Q4. Follow-up question. How big of a turn bet would I have needed to get villain to fold KQ?

I appreciate any feedback.

Comments

  • beauregardbeauregard Posts: 1,592Subscriber
    boobear wrote: »
    I call on the button with 6 9. I know this is probably a fold but I don't like folding my button, my image is pretty tight, $20 is a pretty small open considering the straddle, and my hand is pretty easy to play post-flop.

    Blinds and straddle all fold.

    Flop ($50) Q 6 3

    Villain cbets $20. This is a pretty small bet and I think the standard play is to just call with middle pair and a backdoor flush draw. However, this is such a dry flop and his bet size seemed like he wasn't very strong. I have a tight image and position and if I raise I might even be able to get a Q to fold.

    I raise to $75. He thinks about it for 30 seconds then calls.

    Q1. How is my thought process/logic on the flop?

    I used to count on my image to do a lot of heavy lifting for me when in game.
    Not all players buy into that. So, I've learned to have my betting do more heavy lifting.

    Ok - here's where I think your thought process goes off the rails...
    flop is un-connected, un-suited board
    you called the pre-flop raise (so you can't have AA, KK, QQ or AQ)
    so, what the heck are you representing here?
    how do you figure a dude who can be as strong as AQ or even KK is ever folding to your raise?
    you can't have 2-pair here.
    so either you've got a set - or some kind of goofy hand like 54s - that has bd fd and sd possibilities.
    you'd have to have an OMC image for me to drop any strong Q from my hand like QJ, KQ or AQ.

    so the idea that you raise and V will fold a Q is very optimistic.
    boobear wrote: »
    Turn ($200) 6 :s:

    He checks. Effective stacks are $255 and I think the standard play would be to bet like half pot now and jam the river. I doubt he puts me on a 6 so my hand strength is pretty disguised.

    However, I decide to check back instead for the following reasons: His range for calling my raise on the flop is probably [88, 99, TT, JJ, Qx]. If I bet the turn he probably only continues with AQ maybe KQ. He probably folds QT/Q9 and weaker. However, if I check the turn he might decide to bet the river with one of those weaker hands perhaps as a bluff.

    I look really strong if I take the raise/bet/shove line. What hands even call me? He might even find a fold with AQ on the river. I figure I only have max 1 street of value at this point. He either has a hand that will call 1 more bet, either on the turn or the river. Or he has a hand that would fold the turn but might decide to bet the river if I check.

    Q2. How is my thought process/logic on the turn?

    sorry, bud...
    this is just fancy play
    on the flop you WANTED V to fold a Q, now that the dealer has bailed out your bad flop raise, you decide that you're going to slow-play your hand?
    what makes you think he's folding?
    And if he folds, so what?
    Bet your hand!

    also - your hand analysis seems to be way off
    a dude that's c-betting a Q-high board is NOT going to call a raise with 88-JJ... at least not in my 1/3 games
    if he's got such a hand - he's more likely to check/call than bet/call (he'd be bluff-catching with that - not betting)

    As I mentioned earlier - your flop raise looks like it's FOS... now's your chance to build a pot with the best hand!
    the secret to winning in poker is to play hands that no one expects that get full value for it!
    If V's got AQ, KQ and maybe even QJ - he's probably not folding.
    You've got your foot on his throat - let him have it!
    Pot should be around 190 - you've got 225 left - push it in.
    A shove here will look so bluffy that you'll probably get called by any Q.
    boobear wrote: »
    River ($200) Q

    Effective stacks are $255. Villain thinks for a few seconds then jams all-in.

    I know I said that I checked the turn to induce a bet on the river but I wasn't expecting an overbet. I feel like now his range is polarized. If he has a hand like JJ and he puts me on a hand like 88, he would check and hope to win at showdown. Plus my turn check looks kinda fishy. It looks like I raised the flop as a bluff then gave up on the turn. So on the river he would probably use his medium pairs as bluff catchers and go for the check/call.

    Therefore, when he goes all-in he either has a complete buff or a Q. At this point it doesn't matter if I have 88 or a 6 because he either has a hand stronger than a 6 or a hand weaker than 88. He wouldn't go all-in with a hand stronger than 88 but weaker than a 6.

    Since his range is so polarized and I couldn't think of many possible hands that he has that are complete air (there's no flush draws). So I figured he must have a Q and folded.

    Q3. How is my thought process/logic on the river?

    I honestly don't know where you're pulling these pocket pairs from...
    you raised the flop - v is capped at a Q - you're uncapped - but you shouldn't have underpairs here
    there are no real draws on the flop - no flush draws and no str8 draws that an open in EP pf should have on this board
    V should never have JJ here or AK or 99 or 77... he's got a Q or nothing
    we got unlucky
    we fold

    boobear wrote: »
    Q4. Follow-up question. How big of a turn bet would I have needed to get villain to fold KQ?
    You're looking at this wrong, imo
    you DON'T want him folding a Q!
    Your betting line is polarized on the flop - here you've either got 66 or 33 or nothing. Since the 6 pairs on the turn - you've either got 33 or nothing... you're like looks like you're spazzing out with A3 or 54 or some goofy KJs....maybe even QT
    If you did this in my game - I'm calling off your turn shove with all my strongest Qs.
    Your V has only got TWO outs when he calls.
    We don't want him to fold!
    If we bet 1/2 pot - he might put us on 33 or 63 and muck. This looks too strong.

    So far, this betting line that you call unconventional is really a very spewy looking line.
    You should have taken advantage of that and shoved.
    The river would have sucked - but you would have gotten it in with the best hand!
    At the end of the day - that's all we can ask for.
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