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Back door and overcard -- line check.

Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
1/3 500 effective. I open AQ of diamonds to 15 over two limpers from
The cut-off. The limpers and one of the blinds call.


Flop is T83 with one dimond. Lady in the blind leads 30 into 60. Limper in the field calls. I overcall with a backdoor flush draw and two overs. I figure the lady is leading a pair/draw and the dude in the field has the same sort of hand so all my outs are probably live.

Turn is the 6 of diamonds. Lady bets 50 into 150. Guy in field folds. I call (should this be a raise?)

River is an offsuit Queen. Lady leads 100. Pot 350, 100 to call.

What's the play?
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Comments

  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    I think you played it fine and we just call. I don’t think the 6 turn is going to scare anyone and I honestly think lady might have JJ she’ll fold to an over card raise. Seems hard to get called by worse unless lady just spews all the time and you know it. God forbid she has QT!
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    I mean, im not calling flop here as well cause shes a station. Now that we did call and we gained some equity Im not rasiing an old lady being the post flop agressor on 2 streets with a draw. As played how much she got left? I probably dont shove or raise but I think Ill just call here.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    I mean, it's a marginal call for sure. But I only need like 20 percent equity and I am in position. I think pealing with naked overs would be pushing it, but the ten and the dimonds give me two back door draws. And, having played with this lady, I am pretty confident that if i made a nutish had I could stack her. She called me down for three big streets with Q2 off on
    A queen high board.
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    is TPTK nutty enough to go for stacks easily here?

    I dont like to try to bluff these players and if im peeling here Id want more equity than 2 overs and a backdoor but thats coause im tired of losing to these players over and over again trying fancy shit.

    Im gonna be honest, she could have a set here. thats a big bet and a very nutty line she just took. See another issue with calling AQ in this spot on flop IMO.

    Can we raise turn to see a 'cheaper' river? If we raise turn she is almost always checking river to us and we can just check back if we need to. If she is passive type than this might work here. I mean this is being results oriented but if an old lady passive station leadsinto you flop and turn what are chances she goes for river as well? Maybe prettyy likely, idk.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Can we raise turn to see a 'cheaper' river? If we raise turn she is almost always checking river to us and we can just check back if we need to. If she is passive type than this might work here. I mean this is being results oriented but if an old lady passive station leadsinto you flop and turn what are chances she goes for river as well? Maybe prettyy likely, idk.

    I’m pretty sure we should never make that play for a variety of reasons. It’s the equivalant of a stop bet or betting to see where we are at. And for the most part V river bet is going to be a similar amount if not less than our raise. So we can call turn call river and accomplish the same thing given we are pretty F’d (with equity of course haha) if raise is called OTT or jammed on. Stacks are going to force us to call even though we need to hit. We should probably be the ones jamming for max pressure if we have to call off anyhow.

    It’s one thing to raise with equity in a effort to fold out better but we probably aren’t folding much out in this spot. IMO.
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    your right, i wasnt putting too much thought into just kind of speaking freely but you are right. Its a bad play because we are just bloating the pot up with a bluff.
  • CycleVCycleV Posts: 1,196Subscriber
    I'd just ditch this otf. Running diamonds are hidden, but that's basically the only thing that gets us paid much. J9 is a 1 liner straight, KJ is two overs if she flopped TP. No guarantee your A is live, ditto the Q, and in fact if A hits and she's still putting money in the middle, unless she's a total drooler you're beat.
    Thanked by 1FriendlyFish
  • FriendlyFishFriendlyFish Posts: 123Member
    I agree with CycleV here to ditch flop.

    Preflop we should be raising larger vs 2 limpers. I’ll make it 18 with 300 stacks and even go as high as 20 with these stack sizes. I’m always happy to take it down pre (no flop no drop!) and usually want it heads up if called. Raising bigger accomplishes both, and we get more money in the pot when we are likely ahead of our opponents range

    On the flop our Q is a very dirty out, the biggest obvious limp call hand that is leading with a draw is J9, the field caller can have this hand aswell, which means our Q will give them a straight and lose us more money, reverse implied odds. I can also see some top pair A10 leading or calling from both players ranges so an A is also a dirty reverse implied odds card. Also flopped sets and 2 pairs from both players are also hands that give our A and Q reverse implied odds!

    As played on the river I am folding. 79 got there on the turn, J9 got there on the river. Q10 same story. Made 2 pairs and sets on the flop are still beating us. Our hand as played looks like an overpair or over cards that can connect with the Q yet she is still betting all 3 streets. The only realistic hand I see us beating here is QJ that barreled a gutshot twice into 2 people and now is value betting on the river, which is possible but highly unlikely considering there was a field caller and she fired turn. I think all 10x hands stops betting this river and go into check call mode. Some weird play JJ that just puts u on a 10 might bet too? Being optimistic. But yea im folding river
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    I agree with Misters Fish and Cyclye. I hadn't really considered the way my overcard outs interact with this board. If it was 75T with a two flush, and a BDFD, I like the overcall, but the queen brings in a lot of straights, and one can never be sure an ace is clean because people play so many Ax hands that you are going to run into
    Aces up a fair amount.

    Anyway, I called and she had J9 (of diamonds ironically enough) for the straight. So I did at least learn that she has a weird/weak donking range.


    Thanks for your feedback.
    Thanked by 1FriendlyFish
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