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1-3, deep, playing against a lagtard

Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
edited December 2017 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
1-3, 700 effective. 30 year-old female Asian lagtard opens UTG to 10. Two people call in between and I 3-bet to 50 with KK. Only the opener calls. Flop is 448, two clubs. She checks, I c-bet 40, she calls. Turn is an offsuit 7. She checks, I bet 80, she makes it 285. I call, reasoning she never had aces, because of preflop. She shouldn't ever have a straight, so I am only losing to 4 combos of sets/quads. But I am ahead of all other overpair. River is an offsuit jack, which changed nothing unless she has jacks. She jams I call.

Thought?
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Comments

  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 518Subscriber
    What is your hand?
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    Shit, I had KK.
  • kaboojiekaboojie Posts: 518Subscriber
    I like the 3! bet sizing pre. Any smaller and we open the door for a multi-way pot.

    I think the cbet should be bigger. Closer to 2/3 PSB.

    I think turn bet should be bigger as well. Min 1/2 PSB.

    AP - I couldn't fold to a lagtard on the turn or river. Both calls are fine IMO
  • SpikeSpike Posts: 24Subscriber
    Pre Flop ok, but 50+50+10+10+1+3=124 pot -rake 40 is to small she may think you're weak with small sizing. My logic is if she called 50 pre flop she will call 75 on flop. When the 7 comes it only completes 5-6 and give open ended with 9-10. Again, I think you’re bet looks weak 124+40+40=204 if you bet 125 and get raised you’re probably behind. You bet 80 this looks like a blocker bet. As played I wouldn’t call the river shove I would either jam turn or fold.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    Yeah, against this V, I should have gone bigger on both streets. It's such a dry board, that's the rationale for the small bets. But she is too crazy for that.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,581Subscriber
    Really depends on the type of LAGtard on how you play this hand.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    Yeah, honestly, after playing with her for a while, she was super wide pre, and, 3-bet and four-bet a lot. But when big money when in post, she usually hand it. Obviously if I had known that before this hand I would have folded the turn.
  • beatsmebeatsme Posts: 603Subscriber
    I agree that flop and turn bets should be bigger. The fact that you bet so small increase her bluffing frequency.... which is not necessarily a bad thing but we need to have a plan to call off if we use this style which is high variance.

    If we bet bigger otf we still get value from fd and other random hands that a "lagtard" would peel with. While lowering the bluffing frequency... this would be my aporoach. Esp thus deep. I think you can still "bet big"/fold.

    The part I have a hard time wrapping my head around is your range you gave her ott.... way too narrow imo. A "lagtard" could have 45 34 A4.... would it really surprise you if she had 56? How about 9T? A "lagtard" could have all these hands.

    What does she think of You? Does she think your tight? Would she try to bluff spefically You?

    Not saying your call is bad but these are the things I woukd be thinking about
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    I don't think she thinks much about other players. I think the description is a bit misleading. I knew she was wide, and aggressive pre, but before this hand went to showdown I didn't know how tardish she was preflop. Had I known that I would have ranged her much wider, and thus folded the turn because she can have like a lot of offsuit 4, as well as A4suited (maybe even A4 off).
  • BandgeekBandgeek Posts: 140Subscriber
    Spike wrote: »
    Pre Flop ok, but 50+50+10+10+1+3=124 pot -rake 40 is to small she may think you're weak with small sizing. My logic is if she called 50 pre flop she will call 75 on flop. When the 7 comes it only completes 5-6 and give open ended with 9-10. Again, I think you’re bet looks weak 124+40+40=204 if you bet 125 and get raised you’re probably behind. You bet 80 this looks like a blocker bet. As played I wouldn’t call the river shove I would either jam turn or fold.

    This.

    We’re in a tough spot on the turn because of sizing. If we had bet bigger on flop and turn we could easily fold to the turn raise, but now we can’t tell if the turn raise is hand strength or because she smells weakness from us.

    If we call turn we should fold to shove on river IMO.

    My experience with hyper aggressive Asian players is that they’ll put in a lot of money preflop with literally almost any two cards, but they’re not committing chips after the flop without a strong hand or big draw.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    @bankgeek I think your analysis is spot on with respect to this player (and probably player type). Agree about sizing as well. Live and learn.
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    edited January 2018
    Heh, just dodged a bullet with the same lag tard. She jammed 400 into a 22xx turn (which I raised 10x pre) I snap fold my overpair and say show the Duce and she does! Learning for the win!
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