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We never Fold Kings pre-flop at 1/3, right?

Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
I happen to get stacked twice in one session running my cowboys into aces, and it made me wonder. I am assuming that at 1/3 less than like 200 bbs effective it just can't be wrong to get it all in pre with kings right? I can see folding them sometimes, but I its doubt it's ever right at the low limits, unless you are insanely deep. Right?


  • f0xrf0xr Posts: 64Subscriber
    I don't think it can ever be a big mistake. I don't think I've ever folded preflop. I remember one hand that I called a 3-bet against my better judgement. I snap-folded a dry Q high flop and I was right, he showed his aces. But in general, except in very specific spots against very specific players, it would be pretty terrible to fold the second nuts.

    Postflop you can certainly find spots where the second nuts is just a bluff catcher, but preflop you better have a good reason to fold. IMO
  • ohsnapzbrahohsnapzbrah Posts: 632Subscriber
    I used to be in the camp of never folding KK preflop. Then this hand happened:

    Aggro kid whom I've 3bet a bit opens to $10 UTG, an OMC calls in UTG+1. I 3bet KK to $40 in MP. SB, a brand new player, jams for $90. UTG tanks and folds. UTG+1 thinks for a tiny bit before jamming for $180.

    A new player, who has no incentive in the hand, jams after a 3bet. Then an OMC call/jams in EP. I folded, and it turns out BOTH players had AA.

    There are situations, but they are few and far between. I'd say, as a rule, we should be slightly more willing to fold KK preflop at 1/2 or 1/3 as compared to 2/5 or 5/10, where some of the competition can 4 and 5bet bluff. There just aren't a lot of 4bet and 5bet bluffs at 1/3. It still isn't bad to just GII when in doubt, because it's one of those situations where there is about 0 difference in reciprocality.
    Thanked by 2squishmytomato Sonny
  • Jesse_The_SuitJesse_The_Suit Posts: 493Subscriber, Professional
    Yeah, I agree there are times were it makes sense to do it, and also that it isn't something that matters much because of the reciprocity and rarity. I doubt either of the situations I encountered today were good candidates for folds (less than 150 big blinds, spazy players, etc). Still it makes you think when it happens twice in a day.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,581Subscriber
    The player jamming, your position, your stack, what the jammer thinks is a big bet, how tight or loose he is, etc.

    I have successfully folded KK in the past live and online. I was mistaken once in my life because I was inexperienced.

    So say you got an Asian rich millionaire who is having a good time and is a bad player. You raise in MP, get 3b all in by some short stack for 40bbs, and the Asian thinks and shoves a 100bb stack pretty casually with his wine in his hand. Ya know that's a call.

    But change that player to some old guy wearing Walmart clothes who hasn't played a hand in 2 hours and is playing with Social Security money well that's a fold IMO.

    I have seen guys raise AA, then over shove a flop 97bbs into a 6bb pot because he doesn't want to get drawn out. I know one guy who has told me he will never 3b me without AA and he shows every, single, time. He likes me and thinks I'm a good player. In fact he rarely gets involved in my pots. How nice is that. I lost once to him KK into his AA and then he told me he never 3bs me without AA.

    Some people are just stuck in some weird mindset of fear and you just gotta vomit fold. This is at 2/5.

    I think the two largest factors are how rich they are and how much fear they have.
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