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The Grind Poker Podcast No.37: What's Good or Bad for Poker?

CLP_CraigCLP_Craig Posts: 790Administrator
In episode 37, Rob gives his thoughts on vlogs, rake, the main event champion and his thoughts on what's good and bad for the poker economy.

Episode post at 11AM PT.



  • PocketAceTrader782PocketAceTrader782 Posts: 441Subscriber
    Rob,excellent podcast!. I completely agree that rake increases is one of the things that will hurt poker the most. Also, the extra charges such as parking, and other stuff.

    However, most people do not understand the reasons this is happening. The reason is all of these minimum wage increases and labor regulations such as increasing amount of mandated "sick days".

    There used to be a time when you took a trip to Vegas and most things were complementary. You had zero resort fees, zero parking fees, zero valet charges. Now there are charges for all of that.

    Now, the consumer has to pay extra for all of this stuff. Look at California, the reason why the rake is so much higher and cost of living is so high is because of their laws they pass, and Nevada is not far behind.

    I only think it's going to get worse unless people wake up. I can totally see the costs becoming so high that casinos just get rid of poker all together or have some kind of computer automated dealers and tables.

  • nofriends333nofriends333 Posts: 887Troll
    edited August 2017
    I would never live in vegas nor would i play poker in Vegas and lets not forget $8 for one doughnut $10 for a 16oz bottle of water during WSOP season . N and out out burger and the buffets are the best bang for the buck and the rest is ripoff city I tend to disagree that hendon stats are good for poker . It provides a somewhat accurate account of a players tournament play stats but keep in mind tht if the losses are not included then it is more inaccurate than accurate . If someone last hendon cash was more than 2yrs old then they either gave up the tournament life for cash or decided to play online My last hendon cash was Nov 2015 Doesnt mean i gave up tournament scene it just means i either suck or have very bad luck I think it might be both
  • neverlearn2neverlearn2 Posts: 2,862Subscriber
    I understand rake is bad but there has to be some kind of rake right? Has a room ever decreased rake due to player pressure or poor showing? Maybe a counter to increase rake is live rakeback, comp points.

    Also for a new game. VICE or HBO or some other cable channel should have a game where people have to get drunk and or high. where its like a fun home game and not some professional money making hyper competition. Bomb pots, dumb side bets, cursing and tilt. all the stuff that makes live games so much fun.

    Maybe the problem we are having is now the fun is gone and the whole entertainment aspect is gone.
  • TboldTbold Posts: 32Subscriber
    I agree with Rob about the Rake being a huge factor in the success of the games. I say it's the ONLY factor that matters. Way before the poker boom only limit was played. In Michigan, where I live, the Soaring Eagle (1993-1998) used to have a $2 rake. The casino opened up at 10:00 AM and closed at 2:00 AM. They had a 9 table room in the back and the games would fill instantly at 10:00 AM, and pretty much went to closing. The place was booming. There were a couple of guys that would fly up from Texas to play every weekend because the games were so good.
    The casino didn't really care about maximizing revenue per square foot, they were just looking to get people in the door. They realized that because the games filled up so fast that the poker players who were waiting to get into the games would probably play blackjack or slots. (Because there was no restaurant, bar, or TV , or lounge, so if you wanted to play poker, you had to wait right there in the casino. The only seats were at the Blackjack table or slots )
    The reason that the rake is the ONLY factor, IMHO, is because most people who play poker have at least an expectation of winning occasionally. When the rake is low (ie. $2-$3 ) , what happens is that your marginal winners / losers will occasionally win and return. On a typical 9 player table you might have 3 winners, 3 break even players (+/- $100), and 3 big losers. Raise the rake to a moderate level $4-$5 that equation might change to 3 winners, 1 break even player, and 5 losers. Change it to a high rake $6-$8 the numbers change to 2 winners, 1 break even player and 6 losers.
    So when the rake is moderate to high, those people in the middle don't get any positive reinforcement. They don't return because losing every day sucks. Most people who play poker aren't psychologically like your typical gambler. The people who play blackjack / craps / slots KNOW they're going to lose. Just watch or play at a blackjack table for an hour. Most likely everyone is losing money, they just like the gambling experience. I would suspect that a typical blackjack player loses 9 out of 10 sessions he plays. Someone who plays poker who loses 9 out of 10 times usually quits.
    Because casino's view everything now in terms of $/square foot poker at an optimal rake level ($2-$3) looks like a loser. What people who run these places don't / can't? / won't understand is that most people who play poker are gamblers in other games too. The money that they (The casino "loses") in poker could / should / will be made up by those players who gamble in the pit. Unfortunately the rake is going up everywhere. In the midwest, where I live, poker is essentially dead.
    I also agree with his comments about main event winners. If a woman were to win the main event, she would be on TV for a while for the novelty, and most likely would get a good advertising deal. As far a inspiring other women into the game, it won't change a thing. Ask yourself if you think that a woman is thinking, "Gee, I don't know if I should play poker, I don't see any ladies playing. Oh wait, player zzz just won the WSOP, she's a girl, I know I can compete."
    If people want to grow poker, there's only one solution. LOWER THE RAKE. Everything else is just noise.