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Super Nit with Pocket Aces UTG facing pressure

SteamedFishSteamedFish Posts: 32Subscriber, Professional
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Hi first post here!

Game Sentosa Singapore, $10/$20

Hero: I'm the super nit at the table, (only play 99+, AK, and AQs). Have hardly played a hand all night, stack of $3100
Villain: A good player. The only history is a few previous orbits, I opened preflop and checked raised the flop and he snap folded. Villains stack is $2400

Hero UTG A A :s:
Villain UTG+1

Hero opens UTG to $75, Villain UTG+1 calls, MP calls, folds around

flop: Q 9 9 :s:
Hero bets out $150
Villain raises to $350
MP folds
Hero?

Comments

  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352Subscriber, Professional
    edited December 2016
    with your image i think this is a good flop to check call. very few draws out there and not many turn cards u r vulnerable to. also very hard to get three streets from a good player. if ur gonna bet, i like something in the $115 range on this dry of a flop.

    as played it's tough without more details on villain. on one hand, how many 9s is he calling with utg1 when a self described nit opens utg? on the other hand, if your range is literally aq+ for betting this flop, how many semi bluffs does he really have? would he ever overplay aq here? you said he's "good" so i doubt it.

    we beat kk (maybe 2 combos) and jts (4 combos). we lose to 89s and 9ts (3 combos generously) and qq (3 combos).

    i may call and see what he does on the turn in the moment, but i think it may be better to just pitch this hand if v really does perceive you to be a super nit. the sizing looks valuey and out of position against a good player in a bloated pot is a real tough spot to be in.
  • AcidhaussAcidhauss Posts: 291Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    Hey SF,

    Good hh; I would however take my read of villain as a good player with a pinch of salt. You've only sat down for 3 orbits, and played only a single hand. One of my biggest leaks is assuming a guy in his twenties with headphones must be a solid player (until you see the guy limp-call Q4s an orbit or two down the line). I also wouldn't worry about your tight image as I find most people tend not to care/notice anyway.

    On the flop, I like a bet. We can have AK, AJ with backdoors, JT etc. I think going £150 is a good size 3-way.

    So we get check-raised; as he called UTG+1 vs your UTG raise, I dont think theres THAT many 9x in a good players range (A9s(1), T9s(2), 98s(2), 99(1)). QQ(3) is a possibility too given the preflop dynamics, but I find recreational players tend to pathologically slowplay the nuts on the flop. I would therefore somewhat discount QQ (but not fully).

    Facing just over a min-click, I think just folding here is just too weak. Villain could be making a small stop-raise with KQ, QJ so getting these odds I don't think we can just get away from it. I think if there were 2 more people yet to act I would probably toss it though.
  • SteamedFishSteamedFish Posts: 32Subscriber, Professional
    @squishmytomato thanks for the comments!

    being out of position on this one really made me feel uncomfortable. so perhaps a check-call would have been a better line to take
  • SteamedFishSteamedFish Posts: 32Subscriber, Professional
    @Acidhauss thanks for the comments

    To clarify, I had been sitting down at the table with this guy for a few hours, Im certain he new how tight I was playing, I had played like two hands in the last three hours! And he definitely was a good player, he was a reg not a rec.
  • AcidhaussAcidhauss Posts: 291Subscriber
    No problem!

    To both you guys, just really want to emphasis why I like a bet on this board. If you think about these guys ranges they're going to really pocket pair heavy here, some AJ/AK which thinks it has showdown etc.

    By checking here, I think it checks through here a lot OTF. As a sort of minor point, we also deny equity to them improving to a boat, trip Qs etc.

    Matthew Janda has done some great videos/content on the reasons to bet. In short they can be boiled down to:

    1. To make the pot bigger in case we win.
    2. To deny equity.

    In this case, clearly we have a pretty good hand and think we have a good chance of winning so want to bloat the pot. Also, we dont mind a fold (although obviously we'd prefer a call) because we get to pick up the pot right away.

    I think the above sounds super obvious, but I find those two reasons really helpful when deciding whether or not I should make a bet.



  • GrindThroughItGrindThroughIt Posts: 28Subscriber, Professional
    I haven't read any of the responses, so pardon if I repeat someone. I'm definitely not folding to this raise on the flop from this villain. When you say he's a "good player", I'm thinking you mean he's tricky, aggressive, etc. If that's the case, his range can be pretty wide here, and heavily weighted towards bluffs/semi-bluffs: JTs/J8s/T8s, and also Axs (ATs can turn a TON of equity against you). I don't see a "good player" raising here too often with a 9 or with Qx, as those hands are too valuable to turn into a bluff obv. I think it's a relatively easy call here.
  • FuzzypupFuzzypup Posts: 2,577Subscriber
    Reverse the hand and look at it from the good player's perspective. What does our hero CLEARLY not have in his range when he bets? He doesn't have quads and he doesn't have a boat. At least from the V's perspective.

    With those hands removed and pretty much no knowledge of hero since he has played almost no hands in the last several hours what would you raise as the V with someone behind you on a paired board? Hero just bet into 2 players.

    I would make the assumption the V has either a draw or a 9x hand here. He is setting up for a river shove.

    Of course what 9x hand does the V have in this spot calling an UTG super nit... UTG+1 with? Could V have the QQ? Hero bet a sizable bet on the flop which generally indicates he has an overpair. In V eyes most nits would check JJ or TT here. His bet also sets him up easily with a small bet on the turn for a small river shove.

    Pot will be $925 on the turn with $975 left to be played. Considering nit has exactly 2 outs as the V if I had QQ here I would bet $350 on the turn (1/3rd pot) and if hero calls the pot is now $1625 with only $620 left to bet.

    Not saying I would fold to the raise. But I think that perhaps checking is better. It opens up both player's ranges to bluff. It converts your hand to AK, JJ, TT, 99, or QQ. Boats and quads will check hoping you catch up saving you money. draws will bet as bluffs.
  • squishmytomatosquishmytomato Posts: 352Subscriber, Professional
    @acidhauss i like to look at a hand like this in terms of street projection. as in: how many streets of value can we possibly get out of a good player? sure - against a rec im betting all three streets here. but not against a good player.

    i think the only time we're getting 3 streets here is in the rare case v flatted with kk pf. otherwise, i think even aq is a pretty easy fold to a nit from v's perspective by the river.

    because of that, i do think we have to check one street, and on a dry paired board, checking the flop seems like a good option to me.
  • workinghardworkinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    being out of position on this one really made me feel uncomfortable. so perhaps a check-call would have been a better line to take

    Being "uncomfortable" is not sufficient justification for making one play vs another. What it means is that you have not studied or played in this situation enough and need to figure out what it is that is making you uncomfortable. This is leading to some confusion, doubt and/or fear. If I took your statement at face value and didn't want you to play when you're not comfortable, I would suggest to never play a hand out of position. Obviously that isn't realistic.

    so, how to handle this? Like every other hand, put your opponent on a realistic range and narrow it down based on the action and player type. Put into his range hands that beat you, made hands that you beat, and draws.
    hands that beat you are realistic combos of 9x. Probably suited so A9s, 9Ts, etc. Made hands you beat are his Qx hands. draws you beat are his JT hands. He probably doesn't have any outright bluffs in his range here but if that is possible, include a couple as well.
    Once you do that, and you consider stack depth, it makes the play a bit easier to proceed. eventually, you will get more comfortable as you continue to play and study these situations.
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