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$5/5 Turned Straight Against Thinking Villain, Best Line?

LuckBox212LuckBox212 Posts: 36Subscriber
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
Deep $5/5 game later in the night, $1500 effective stacks, 8 handed.

Villain is a young thinking player comfortable playing much larger games, has been playing TAGish and is able to hand read well. Discusses/idolizes Galfond with some frequency at the table for whatever that's worth. I have seen him get creative at points in the past but not so much on this particular night.

Villain min raises to $10 from UTG+2 (which he had been doing frequently), HJ calls, BTN calls, SB calls, and I call with 6 4 .

Flop ($50): Q :s: 3 5

SB checks, I bet $35, Villain calls, all others fold.

Turn ($120): 7

I bet $65, villain thinks for not long and makes it $140. I put villain on a range of AQ+, KK+, sets of QQ, 77, 55, 33. I felt like a 3 bet would blow him off any 1 pair hand and that he would likely value bet his entire range on the river, so I call.

River ($400): 9

I check, he bets $300, Hero?

Opinions on all streets welcome but especially turn play and river sizing. Thanks in advance.
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Comments

  • pray4blankpray4blank Posts: 141Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    That's a great card for his value range so going for a check raise seems right. I suppose there is a small chance he raises KK, AA, AQ on the turn then checks back the river? Probably not though...?

    I think your bet-call turn and check-raise river should look extremely polarized to almost any decent player. So...it kinda depends how good you think he is. In my games, a goodish reg may fold all one pair hands to even a min. check raise, but make a crying call with bottom set for any amount. In this scenario making a giant shove seems right. For a better player who may find folds with sets, min(ish) check raise seems good as the one pair hands may sometimes make a crying call too.
  • PBJTIMEPBJTIME Posts: 345Subscriber
    Donk lead, bet/call, check raise looks super strong. I don't see your check raise on the river getting called by any hand worse than 77. Your line looks like a flopped set. Given that range, I prefer a 3-bet on the turn so you have a chance to stack 77 or QQ.
  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Agree with PBJ. As played raise but your line is so strong I don't know if you get called by much.

    I think I prefer a small 3! OTT like $200 more. Give him odds and maybe even think you can still fold/call with worse if he comes back over. Also sets up your ability to lead a decent size river bet with good odds that he may still crying call or shove over if he has a set and perceives it as good. Your pretty much dependent on him having a set or 2 pair he's ready to go with OTT.
  • LuckBox212LuckBox212 Posts: 36Subscriber
    I would up making it $900 on the river, he tanked for a good 4 minutes and finally folded, claiming afterwords that he had a very strong hand, which might well mean a set of 3's or 5's but i suspect it may have just been AA orKK... I also think that pray's comment that a shove might have looked bluffier is a good one and might have gotten a call with a set.

    I think pokertime's idea of clicking back $200 on top OTT was probably the best line but always feel like 3 bets on the turn or river look so strong that I would lose him. Am I wrong about that or is maybe my perception is that the games I play in that players generally don't 3 bet bluff or semi bluff much? Thanks for the feedback.
  • workinghardworkinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    I put villain on a range of AQ+, KK+, sets of QQ, 77, 55, 33.
    Most players are not min raising pre with AQ, AK, KK, QQ. Maybe this guy is different and you have seen him do it but otherwise I'd really discount it. Also, he didn't raise your flop bet when there is a field of players left to act behind him so I really discount those hands. I actually put some 2 pair hands into his range like Q9, 79

    In the range that's left that you're giving him, he has sets. You guys are deep. Why wouldn't you raise against him if you think he has a set? As played, you are do damn lucky he bet the river. You almost left over $1k on the table.

    The main concerns I have with your hand are 1: how you range opponents based on the action. And 2: how you respond to that range when deep. When you are deep with an opponent and you have a nutted hand and your opponent is playing like s/he could have strong second best hands in their range, play like they have a strong hand. don't worry about the times they have QT and fold.

    Many players win minuscule pots because they are more concerned about getting an extra $50 from top pair vs $1200 from a set. How many times have you seen on showdown two players show very strong hands and the winner sheepishly stacks up his $100 pot that could have been $2000 because he was trapping the other guy and afraid his opponent was going to fold? then everyone is amazed when a good player gets max value with hands time and time again. why play for bronze when you can win gold?
  • AcidhaussAcidhauss Posts: 291Subscriber
    I think you just have to raise turn this deep. Its not impossible that UTG flats top set on an innocuously looking dry board, or turn second set. With players behind though I think its almost certainly top set as I think 2/5 players tend to fold with so many behind.

    I dont think the straights super obvious, not least when you have top set so Id reraise to around 475. I just dont see anyone folding a set to that much.

    On the river the pot will be £1.1k with a psb left or so. I think I'd probably jam to get the max vs Q.

    I really agree with ehat workinghard has to say.

  • pokertimepokertime Posts: 2,194Subscriber
    Working hard covered it well. It's true any raise looks strong anytime so you are really just hoping someone has something they will at least want to see a river with. If they fold they fold. As stated you get the pot bigger and can even get value out of a crying call on the river just because the pot is now so big and you may give them great odds with a thin value bet or tempt them with a giant pot when you bet big. Once you play it slow and let the river come out the hand is basically over and cards read so you can only get so much. I used to do this to but have learned to go for it most of the time as I get called a lot by draws, pairs etc that can't resist seeing the river in the hopes they bink or get a check check. Save the checking and slow play for when you are the one looking to suck out and get a cheap river!
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