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Playing Second Pair

ZachWaldmanZachWaldman Posts: 65Subscriber
edited December 2016 in NLHE Strategy Discussion
In last night's session, I saw several pots won by people with second pair. For example, somebody raises, gets one or two callers, the flop is dry, save one big card like a king, and then they end up betting every street, going to the river, and the winner is the one with 68os who flopped a pair of eights.

I'm not complaining about loose play, but I am looking for advice on how to play second pair type hands. Can you point me in the right direction?

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Comments

  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,246Member
    edited December 2016
    Let me start by saying fold 68o pre, these idiots are just clicking buttons.
    If you want to get better and try to get value from your medium strength hands I'd recommend doing some of the felt homework based on position, ranges, profiling and sizing.
    You will be harder to play against if you are capable of taking second pair for value with the same line as you would with top pair.
    Thanked by 1ZachWaldman
  • FelintarFelintar Posts: 37Subscriber
    Letmewin1 wrote: »
    Let me start by saying fold 68o pre, these idiots are just 3clicking buttons.
    If you want to get better and try to get value from your medium strength hands I'd recommend doing some of the felt homework based on position, ranges, profiling and sizing.
    You will be harder to play against if you are capable of taking second pair for value with the same line as you would with top pair.

    In this type of game are we overthinking and leveling ourselves trying to put these types of players on ranges?
    Thanked by 1ZachWaldman
  • ZachWaldmanZachWaldman Posts: 65Subscriber
    Obviously, I don't play 68os, but I was giving an example of what I typically see at commerce. It just seems like I'm losing a lot of value folding my second pair type hands.
  • workinghardworkinghard Posts: 1,573Subscriber
    This really takes a lot of experience to develop the "feel" for when your second pair is good. As a rule of thumb, the more draws that your opponent can have and the weaker that top pair is, the better it is to play second pair. for example, I'd rather have a 6 on a 862 board than a J on a AJ2 board. Much more chance opponent has an Ace vs an 8.
  • Letmewin1Letmewin1 Posts: 1,246Member
    Felintar wrote: »
    Letmewin1 wrote: »
    Let me start by saying fold 68o pre, these idiots are just 3clicking buttons.
    If you want to get better and try to get value from your medium strength hands I'd recommend doing some of the felt homework based on position, ranges, profiling and sizing.
    You will be harder to play against if you are capable of taking second pair for value with the same line as you would with top pair.

    In this type of game are we overthinking and leveling ourselves trying to put these types of players on ranges?[/qoute]

    Your job is to maximize value, can't do that if you don't know what range of hands you're trying to squeeze $ from.
    Thanked by 1ZachWaldman
  • BlackBoxEquityBlackBoxEquity Posts: 165Subscriber
    Obviously, I don't play 68os, but I was giving an example of what I typically see at commerce. It just seems like I'm losing a lot of value folding my second pair type hands.

    Very easy to think like this and loosen up or start overplaying 2nd pair...then you will be saying, "man, my 2nd pair is never good against these guys" and realize that the downside of holding on to these was greater than missing out on some spots to pick it up. Give your game some time to grow before you try to work these types of plays in (vs certain opponent types).
  • DurkDurk Posts: 30Subscriber
    edited December 2016
    You definitly need the feel. As mentioned above the more draws and the better the read you are able to have on your opponent the more valuable second pair value will be. It isn't something I recommend going for until you are very confident in your game. When you are experienced enough you will likely have a very good idea what spots you are able to do this in. I love combo raising second pair to get better to fold (second pair better kicker, top pair weak kicker, and worse to call (draws and depending on opponent possibly even bottom pair or same pair with weak kicker if I have say A6 on 862CC board. The villains in these situations are key to making these plays profitable. As well as being able to give up on the hand or turn it into a profitable bluff on later streets. (Oh, and obvcourse position, position, position!)
    Thanked by 1ZachWaldman
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